Glyphosate

[Mick F]

I've been stockpiling it for the past few years, buying it when I see a bargain. Last bargain was in Lidl's.
I have two 500ml bottles unopened in the shed, plus I have a part-used one. Perhaps I have two or three years worth.

It's in the news again after the court case in the US, so I reckon there'll be more people stockpiling it.

[661-Pete]

What do you intend to use this stuff on?

We visited my B-i-L on his small farm in Maryland USA, a few years ago. They are retired and merely keep a small herd of suckler cattle, plus stabling and paddock for a few horses (some their own, some belonging to friends).

We walked along the track that runs along the edge of his farm, adjacent to the neighbouring farmer's land. The latter had a sturdy crop of soyabeans in his fields - he also rents part of my B-i-L's farm to grow more of his beans in. My B-i-L explained that the beans are GM'd - so-called 'Roundup Ready' - meaning that he can douse his crop with copious quantities of the vile substance, killing everything except his precious bean plants....

My B-i-L also explained that he'd been at pains to persuade his neighbour not to let any of the roundup escape onto my B-i-L's land (except the piece he's rented out of course).

Me - I wouldn't touch the stuff with a barge pole. Nor would I consume anything made from soybeans if I knew them to be GM. That last may be difficult to avoid, though...

[kwackers]

Think I've got about 5 litres of the stuff - needs mixing at 50:1 so I've probably got a lifetimes worth.
It was pretty handy for a nasty infestation of ground elder I had. I'd tried a few things prior but the stuff just kept spreading. Fortunately it turned out it wasn't "roundup ready" and the glyphosate made pretty short work of it.
If you don't buy it as Roundup then you can easily pick up large quantities very cheaply.

Given the population of the world I'm afraid it's GM or nothing. Glyphosate is one of the few "safe" weedkillers left, the real problem is that weeds are becoming tolerant to it. GM allows it to be used less frequently but in higher doses which makes it less likely weeds become tolerant but ultimately glyphosate tolerance is a given and eventually it'll need to be replaced with something else.

From all the research I've seen you'd need to consume stupidly large quantities of the stuff to suffer any ill effects.
Far safer than radon exposure or eating supposedly well reared meat or even riding a bicycle.

That said, I avoid using it unless I have to and I'd prefer to buy non GM, organic food but then I'm lucky like that.
The next generation or two? Not so lucky...

[Mick F]

Weeds.
Surrounded by scrubland and woodland here, so seeds of everything come in.

Bracken, brambles, thistles, nettles ..... mainly.
Using it in a pump-bottle on jet, you can spot-kill the weeds.
Also trying to get rid of invasive bamboo. Slow process with bamboo.
Not to mention the Virginia Creeper. Almost impossible to get rid of, so I have to let it set some leaves and then spray it. Seems to find a way of coming up somewhere else, but when it does, it gets the same treatment.

Many gravel pathways in the garden, and I can keep the weeds off it.

We have a long tarmac drive that gets weeds on it and moss too. Again, you can spot-kill them ......... and it works brilliantly.

Some years ago, we were infested with bracken in our wood, so I used long lengths of string to demarcate small areas so I knew where I'd treated it rather than blanket bombing the whole wood.. After a few months, I'd done it, but it will return I have no doubt.

[pliptrot]

Depending on who is paying for the study, it is a carcinogen, or it is not. My PhD was funded by ICI agrochemicals, and I know a bit about this. Given that the agrochemical industry has been buying governments and public opinion for a long time, those reports linking glyphosate with cancer carry some weight. As I mentioned, I have knowledge of agricultural chemistry. I eat only organic food.

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my SM-G900F using hovercraft full of eels.

[al_yrpal]

The guy with the cancer had apparently used Roundup 30 times a year! Perhaps he had taken few pecautions and breathed a mist in frequently before it lost its potency? Its presently approved by the NFU, our government and the EU. Better stock up before the tree huggers get it banned. My next door neighbour creosoted a couple of fences last week by delving into his old stock. Local ironmongers are a great source of filament light bulbs.

Al

[pliptrot]

The NFU can never be accused of giving a toss about what farmers produce - only how much money they make (a lot). The EU was about to ban glyphosate when the agrochemical lobby stepped in and bought some influence. Us tree huggers do have a rational argument in this case. I have a 2 year old daughter, and when her health is likely to be affected because of the profit imperative, I get upset with old farts who are rude.

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my SM-G900F using hovercraft full of eels.

[Si]

Weeds.
Surrounded by scrubland and woodland here, so seeds of everything come in.

You need pigs....

Also trying to get rid of invasive bamboo. Slow process with bamboo.

...pigs and pandas.

[Mick F]

Pigs would be good, but we'd (sorry, pun) need someone to look after them as I have better things to do. This place is a pig stye enough without any competition.

Off (my) topic.
We used to know a couple who frequented a local pub. Not seen them for years, so they must have moved.
"The Good Life", as many of us would remember as the sitcom on telly, was originally set by our friends, who back in the 60s bought a house and garden and got out of the rat-race and went self-sufficient. Young family the lot.

They had pigs, goats, a cow, and grew as much as they could. Their youngest son turned out to be a diva with fruit and veg. The other kids helped out and they would send their livestock to slaughter and then eat them. That was one of the hardest parts - eating their "pet" pigs and sheep, let alone the chickens.

I remember them very well, but they were in their late 50s by then and had left their Good Life behind and moved to Cornwall, but they still had a goat and a pig from what I remember.

[softlips]

A similar compensation sum was recently awarded against J&J for cancer allegedly caused by talcum powder. These sums are never paid out.

[PDQ Mobile]

Weeds.
Surrounded by scrubland and woodland here, so seeds of everything come in.

Bracken, brambles, thistles, nettles ..... mainly.
Using it in a pump-bottle on jet, you can spot-kill the weeds.
Also trying to get rid of invasive bamboo. Slow process with bamboo.
Not to mention the Virginia Creeper. Almost impossible to get rid of, so I have to let it set some leaves and then spray it. Seems to find a way of coming up somewhere else, but when it does, it gets the same treatment.

Many gravel pathways in the garden, and I can keep the weeds off it.

We have a long tarmac drive that gets weeds on it and moss too. Again, you can spot-kill them ......... and it works brilliantly.

Some years ago, we were infested with bracken in our wood, so I used long lengths of string to demarcate small areas so I knew where I'd treated it rather than blanket bombing the whole wood.. After a few months, I'd done it, but it will return I have no doubt.

Interestingly the "brambles, thistles, nettles", are all rather useful or even vital for many species.

Brambles are loved by bees and makes fine delicate honey.
They can all be controlled by cutting. Nylium?

Bracken can be eradicated by cutting too, in spite of rumour to the contrary!

I have never used any proprietary weedkiler in my life.
I prefer to not be overly "urban" in my rural endeavours!!

[Mick F]

Brambles are loved by bees and makes fine delicate honey.
They can all be controlled by cutting. Nylium?
Bracken can be eradicated by cutting too, in spite of rumour to the contrary!

Brambles are as thick as your fingers round here, and very few of them have flowers and fruit on them unless they are young and thin. They need pruning to keep them young like having them on a roadside where they are continually pruned by traffic etc. Try having brambles in a woodland. Honestly, as thick as your fingers and tough as old boots and no flowers to be seen.

Bracken re-grows year after year. Cut it with a strimmer or bruise it with a stick and it dies ......... but comes up next year. The plant has a root system that stores its nutrients for next year and the next etc. Kill the plant properly and it's dead.

Keep cutting any perennial tough plant and it will die. Take away the photosynthesis and it will die. It takes many years to kill a plant that has a good storage system beneath the ground.

[PDQ Mobile]

I just knew that bracken would be a point of contention!!
The farmers used to helicopter spray it with Asulox round here, because leaf contact weedkiller was considered uneffective on the rhizome. It's an increasingly expensive business and less undertaken than formely.
Asulox is taken in through the frond to that underground storage and it does it's dastardly work there.
It is not very nice stuff IMV.

I have succsesfully totally eradicated lots of bracken by cutting, both manually! and mechanically.(There was a interesting hillside experiment years ago using just a heavy roller but I have no reference).

My experience is (somewhat surprisingly) that totally infested areas of high dense bracken,that has not been cut for many years, can be practically eradicated in a single season by three cuts. Just as the fronds have started to really uncurl and open. It is as if it can't cope with the sudden change.
Bracken that is smaller and "used" to being cut is a bit more persistant but three or four cuts anually will "do" for it after say 3 years.

Indeed the root system is a starch store.
It is important to note that it is all actually one single plant in a given area and it is desirable to cut all of it - every last frond- each time, to achieve really good results.
Leave a few to photosynthesize and the outcome is obvious!

[Mick F]

Nice post.
Thanks!

One of the issues with bracken here, is the field near here was infested with it. The local farmer didn't do anything about it for years and years, and the stuff spread by spores to our garden and wood. Eventually the farmer sprayed the field and it's all but gone now, and I've just about eradicated at our place.

Sheep don't eat it, and neither do cattle, but there is a breed of pig that'll eat it, though I can't remember which breed.

[pete75]

I've been stockpiling it for the past few years, buying it when I see a bargain. Last bargain was in Lidl's.
I have two 500ml bottles unopened in the shed, plus I have a part-used one. Perhaps I have two or three years worth.

It's in the news again after the court case in the US, so I reckon there'll be more people stockpiling it.

A friend gave me a 20 litre drum form his farm stock. Go to an agricultural supplier and get 20 litres for about 50 quid. It's stronger than the garden centre stuff as well so you don't need as much. I use it on a large gravel driveway and parking area. Backpack sprayer a lot quicker than weeding by hand and you can do it standing up. Had enough of stoop work years ago picking tates.