Glyphosate

[kwackers]

I am a little curious about which plants it is desirable to eradicate totally?
MickF wants rid of brambles, nettles and thistles for example. (We never heard what fate, if any, befell the wasps he had?!)

Brambles & nettles I simply cut back, they're fairly easy.

Ivy is a problem for me but the shiny leaves make glyphosate mostly ineffective, I tend to pick an area and spend most of the day manually ripping the stuff out and off trees/bushes.
I'd leave some areas of ivy alone since bees seem to like it and birds nest in there.

Ground elder, I had a bad infestation and it grew faster and popped up in more places than I could handle, I nuked the entire area with glyphosate - masking plants I didn't want touched and it's been gone now for months with no sign of recurrence, I'll just keep my eyes out for any strays I missed which I can probably handle now by digging out, give it a year or two then I'll replant.

My patio is about 130 sq m and needs re-laying. Seeds get in the cracks and it's impossible to keep on top of them (I've tried). A yearly squirt in March/April keeps it weed free - although the real solution would be to re-lay the patio (its on my list).

Sometimes if I want to selectively kill a plant and make sure it's gone then some glyphosate and a paint brush works wonders...

[PDQ Mobile]

Ground elder seems to be the one!
Difficult to eradicate even by spraying by all accounts.
Introduced by the Romans I believe, they should have known better!
Gout weed!


Patio and stone paving I clear with a strimmer, it is fairly time consuming but I kinda like the little green fellows that spring up along the joints.

I use a strimmer on ivy too, but I am fond of ivy clad walls, and things.
It does make good nesting habitat.
It is also good for late forage for bees- winter stores- but the honey isn't so nice.

[661-Pete]

Many years ago, paraquat ("Weedol") was considered to be the 'answer' to every gardener's weed problems. The "magic bullet" able to safely rid your garden of all weeds. Available in all garden centres and DIY stores. My parents bought the stuff. So did most people around that time.

Then its toxicity was revealed. It took years for it to disappear off the shelves though.

Why should I be more trustful of glyphosate?

[Cyril Haearn]

How can glyphosate be so specific that it wipes out bad plants without being hazardous to people?

Like asbestos maybe, no-one will know for a few years, then it may be too late

[kwackers]

Many years ago, paraquat ("Weedol") was considered to be the 'answer' to every gardener's weed problems. The "magic bullet" able to safely rid your garden of all weeds. Available in all garden centres and DIY stores. My parents bought the stuff. So did most people around that time.

Then its toxicity was revealed. It took years for it to disappear off the shelves though.

Why should I be more trustful of glyphosate?

You could say the same about pretty much any chemical you keep under your sink.
Paraquat had the useful side effect of making folk distrustful hence glyphosate is probably one of the most studied products of all time.

What about stuff we absolutely know to be carcinogenic? Do you fry food? Eat bacon? Red meat? And at the ridiculous level - breath oxygen?

You're exposed to carcinogens of which studies show there to be no doubt of their toxicity, but with glyphosate nobody seems to be able to provide any evidence of its toxicity yet folk seem to assume it is.

So far glyphosate has science on its side, that's not to say there isn't something missing in that science and that turns out to be true then I'll adopt that version but so far having read study after study over the years I'm more than happy.
(Obviously I wouldn't drink the stuff, unlike the poor mice)

[kwackers]

How can glyphosate be so specific that it wipes out bad plants without being hazardous to people?

Like asbestos maybe, no-one will know for a few years, then it may be too late

Easy, it blocks an enzyme pathway that prevents protein formation.
Why isn't it hazardous to people? You don't have that pathway.

If you swallow it then it simply comes out in your urine chemically unchanged.

(P.S. It also wipes out good plants )

[661-Pete]

So this doesn't bother some of you guys?

[kwackers]

So this doesn't bother some of you guys?

Nope.

I'd worry far more about the sugar content.

[Mick F]

^^^^
+1

[francovendee]

So this doesn't bother some of you guys?

Nope.

I'd worry far more about the sugar content.

+1 Far more risks to children's health in the food from sugar and fat added to the product by the manufacturer.

[Cyril Haearn]

So this doesn't bother some of you guys?

Nope.

I'd worry far more about the sugar content.

I worry about both, and the long list of ingredients
May I still enjoy porridge, should I upgrade to organic?

[kwackers]

Anyone here eat toast or roast spuds?

Whilst the risk of cancer from these is very low (and probably over hyped) the thing is studies do show a slight risk. Studies with glyphosate otoh have yet to show any risk and this despite the massive attention and numerous studies it gets.

I'd be willing to bet that most folk who panic over glyphosate wouldn't think twice about eating toast or roast spuds (or bacon) despite the fact we can show links between them and cancer.

It's all part and parcel of our cognitive bias, we'll dismiss cancer causing products when it suits and tell ourselves the risk is so low and they taste so good that it's all fine.
But call something a chemical and its no holds barred despite all the scientific evidence suggesting it's perfectly safe.

What we should realise is that just because a court in a conservative country predisposed to such rulings, whose population is frankly scientifically illiterate has decided that the product did indeed cause cancer doesn't mean it actually did.

Their decision was based on a study that had found no evidence of it causing cancer in humans and for a product that has no known mechanism by which it could cause cancer.

So a single person gets cancer and all you have is the tenuous link that they'd regularly used the product in question.
And the result is mass panic.

It's madness.

[PDQ Mobile]

Anyone here eat toast or roast spuds?

Whilst the risk of cancer from these is very low (and probably over hyped) the thing is studies do show a slight risk. Studies with glyphosate otoh have yet to show any risk and this despite the massive attention and numerous studies it gets.

I'd be willing to bet that most folk who panic over glyphosate wouldn't think twice about eating toast or roast spuds (or bacon) despite the fact we can show links between them and cancer.
.

Of course those foodstuffs and many other vegetables and cereals do contain significant herbicide and pesticide residues?

Oats particularly, Bryn.

I think MickF's wasps are no more.

[horizon]

I'm just throwing this in for comment really:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... drens-food

[661-Pete]

I'm just throwing this in for comment really:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... drens-food

Already posted, see above.

I see I'm not going to win the argument against a segment of this forum, here. Drench your garden in poison if you must! Count me out.