Speed Awareness Course

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brynpoeth
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Re: Speed Awareness Course for CUK CEO

Postby brynpoeth » 14 Nov 2018, 10:03pm

Paulatic wrote:AFAC2198-17A8-406C-AEC7-7497276A183B.jpeg
Nothing surprises me about this guy.

He uses the brakes instead of the gears to check speed downhill! :(

Is this comparable to swapping points? Should he have tried to keep it secret?
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Cugel
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby Cugel » 14 Nov 2018, 10:07pm

meic wrote:Two million drivers are caught speeding per year.
I havent had a ticket since the 1980s but it could happen to me tomorrow if I was driving somewhere new or they changed the limit on a regular route.
Some drivers get a ticket because they are always speeding.
Some drivers obey the law to the best of their ability and get unlucky
Some drivers obey the law to the best of their ability and stay lucky.
The only ones immune from getting a ticket are those who dont drive.


Utter self-serving nonsense. It's very easy to obey the speed limits, not least if your motivation for doing so is to avoid killing or damaging someone rather than merely avoiding a paltry fine.

I never break the limits. Why would I? Some seem to suggest that it's "not intentional" which I translate as "driving without due care and attention". Others believe they are above the law and can make better judgements of when speeding is "safe", especially as they are on various important missions (aka "being late").

Motorists! Cuh!!

Cugel

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meic
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby meic » 14 Nov 2018, 10:14pm

Self-serving in what way?
It's very easy to obey the speed limits

It's as easy as riding a bike. I dont fall off my bike because I pay attention to not doing so. However I might fall off my bike one day.
Same with obeying the speed limits, its easy to do but I am not arrogant enough to think that I cant slip up once or twice in my life. Anybody who claims they havent got a speeding ticket purely through paying attention and hasnt also had some luck, is deluding themselves.
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meic
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby meic » 14 Nov 2018, 11:31pm

I never break the limits. Why would I?

Assuming that you actually drive, because you are human. You are not perfect, there are limits to your ability.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority

Rather amusingly (considering the unfathomable self-serving accusation)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias
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Cugel
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby Cugel » 15 Nov 2018, 8:55am

meic wrote:Self-serving in what way?
It's very easy to obey the speed limits

It's as easy as riding a bike. I dont fall off my bike because I pay attention to not doing so. However I might fall off my bike one day.
Same with obeying the speed limits, its easy to do but I am not arrogant enough to think that I cant slip up once or twice in my life. Anybody who claims they havent got a speeding ticket purely through paying attention and hasnt also had some luck, is deluding themselves.


What other activities of a dangerous and potentially highly-damaging or even lethal kind do you perform in the hope that your inattention or incompetence can be excused because you were "unlucky"? Whilst I agree that no human is perfect, there's a difference between excusing yourself (in a self-serving fashion) from responsibility because lady luck frowned at you and admitting that you may still make mistakes.

If the activity involved is so dangerous hat you feel yourself potentially unable to perform it safely you should either get better at it or give it up. Of course millions don't, with the car; and so we have the "accident" statistics we do, emblematic of a vast sea of harm and misery wreaked not by dangerous self-serving fools, apparently, but by victims of lady luck.

I do have sympathy with the notion that not even I am infallible. However, I take that lack seriously and don't attempt to excuse my incompetence with references to an imaginary luck distributor. One must become competent or give it up.

Cugel

pwa
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby pwa » 15 Nov 2018, 9:15am

Cugel wrote:
meic wrote:Self-serving in what way?
It's very easy to obey the speed limits

It's as easy as riding a bike. I dont fall off my bike because I pay attention to not doing so. However I might fall off my bike one day.
Same with obeying the speed limits, its easy to do but I am not arrogant enough to think that I cant slip up once or twice in my life. Anybody who claims they havent got a speeding ticket purely through paying attention and hasnt also had some luck, is deluding themselves.


What other activities of a dangerous and potentially highly-damaging or even lethal kind do you perform in the hope that your inattention or incompetence can be excused because you were "unlucky"? Whilst I agree that no human is perfect, there's a difference between excusing yourself (in a self-serving fashion) from responsibility because lady luck frowned at you and admitting that you may still make mistakes.

If the activity involved is so dangerous hat you feel yourself potentially unable to perform it safely you should either get better at it or give it up. Of course millions don't, with the car; and so we have the "accident" statistics we do, emblematic of a vast sea of harm and misery wreaked not by dangerous self-serving fools, apparently, but by victims of lady luck.

I do have sympathy with the notion that not even I am infallible. However, I take that lack seriously and don't attempt to excuse my incompetence with references to an imaginary luck distributor. One must become competent or give it up.

Cugel

That last sentence, Cugel, seems to acknowledge that unlike Mary Poppins, you are not "practically perfect in every way" and you can make a mistake. For any driver to say that because they try to be careful they will never stray over a speed limit is laughably ridiculous. Any driver can and will do it, unless they truly are perfect. The best you can do is to minimise it. So I'm not inclined to point the finger too much at someone who got caught once. I don't know whether they are generally very good and had a forgetful moment, or are habitual flagrant speeders who have been fortunate not to have been caught before. Either could be true.

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meic
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby meic » 15 Nov 2018, 9:16am

in the hope that your inattention or incompetence can be excused because you were "unlucky"

This bit is entirely in your mind. This habit of yours of making up other peoples thoughts is very irritating.
Paul Tuohy seems to have accepted his rap without complaint and so would I.
My last time where I recall catching myself speeding was on a regular route where on reaching the first repeater after having slowed down to 40mph on entering a 40 zone, I saw that the repeater said 30.
The speed limit had been changed, I was lucky and it wasnt the first days when they set up a camera to show they mean it, so I wasnt caught. If I was caught I would have said "fair cop". I was no more dangerous than when I went down there the time before at 40mph legally, which isnt a judgement on what the speed limit should be, it just illustrates that the accidental speeding was not a leap from safe to dangerous, merely crossing a line drawn through a statistical scatter. I was just as dangerous perfectly legally the time before but thats fine.
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brynpoeth
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby brynpoeth » 15 Nov 2018, 9:48am

It is best to keep well below the maximum speed limit
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Bonefishblues
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby Bonefishblues » 15 Nov 2018, 9:50am

It is best not to have rigid rules other than not committing an offence so one can adapt ones driving to the prevailing conditions.

kwackers
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby kwackers » 15 Nov 2018, 10:01am

Hard to put an exact number on it but I reckon over the years I've been caught speeding 4 maybe 5 times (last in 1990).
Every time I knew exactly what the speed limit was and how fast I was going.

I'm fairly sceptical of anyone who claims they don't know what the speed limit was, I wouldn't say it could never happen that they had good reason but I reckon it's vanishingly rare.
OTOH, not knowing what the speed limit is because you don't pay attention, that happens all the time.

I was fairly amused when the council made our entire estate a 20mph area. They erected big "20mph area" signs on the entrance, big "30, you are leaving a 20" signs on the exit and the usual legally required repeater signs.

All was good for 6 months (apart from everyone speeding) and then plod turned up with a speed camera and issued a load of fines.
The sense of outrage verged on the hysterical. It was unfair, nobody told them it was a 20, they should have been given more warning of the new limit, they should have warned rather than fined them the first time etc etc.

It's now a good few months since that happened and speeds are at their usual 30-40mph. I note that the local councillor has mentioned the cameras will be back soon...

pwa
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby pwa » 15 Nov 2018, 10:11am

I made a mistake in a 20 zone and got caught. Fair enough. There was a sign (I saw it later) and for some reason I must have been looking at something else and didn't notice it. It wasn't a bit of road I used much but I had used it before and it had been 30. I thought it still was and I was wrong. I was doing 24mph. Thinking I was in a 30 zone.

I'm not saying I wasn't wrong, but is that mistake so bad that it merits finger pointing?

kwackers
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby kwackers » 15 Nov 2018, 10:18am

pwa wrote:I'm not saying I wasn't wrong, but is that mistake so bad that it merits finger pointing?

You get marks off me for owning up and admitting your mistake. :wink:

It can happen, but very rarely. People sometimes don't pay attention but tbh I don't think that's a "good" excuse.
It's the folk who are insistent they've done no wrong or they're being treated unfairly that get my goat.

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mjr
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby mjr » 15 Nov 2018, 11:06am

meic wrote:Two million drivers are caught speeding per year.
I havent had a ticket since the 1980s but it could happen to me tomorrow if I was driving somewhere new or they changed the limit on a regular route.
Some drivers get a ticket because they are always speeding.
Some drivers obey the law to the best of their ability and get unlucky
Some drivers obey the law to the best of their ability and stay lucky.
The only ones immune from getting a ticket are those who dont drive.

I feel that's being a speeding apologist. The only good excuse which comes to mind is if it's a non-default limit (such as 40 or 20 on a single carriageway, or 30 on an unlit one), the road looked safe to travel more quickly and some limit signs were missing or obscured - but in those cases, the ticket should be rescinded anyway. Otherwise, take the punishment and don't try to suggest that it's socially acceptable because everyone does it - they don't, as you can see from how few get tickets.

If you know that you are at risk of speeding, then why haven't you taken steps to reduce it? I realised that the speedo in my latest car is badly-designed and difficult to read fast enough for modern roads, so I added a head-up display that projects the speed translucently low onto the road ahead and assists me in obeying the law. It was a bonus that I could switch it to km/h for easier legal driving abroad.
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mjr
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby mjr » 15 Nov 2018, 11:09am

meic wrote:I was no more dangerous than when I went down there the time before at 40mph legally, which isnt a judgement on what the speed limit should be, it just illustrates that the accidental speeding was not a leap from safe to dangerous, merely crossing a line drawn through a statistical scatter. I was just as dangerous perfectly legally the time before but thats fine.

It wasn't fine because driving faster than is safe was still illegal no matter what the signed limit - it's a limit not a target or recommendation. It's just much easier to punish people for exceeding a signed limit, plus too many people still driving faster than is safe is a valid reason to set a lower signed limit.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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brynpoeth
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby brynpoeth » 15 Nov 2018, 11:21am

2m - tip of the iceberg
One is likelier to win the lottery than to be caught exceeding the maximum speed limit :(
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