Speed Awareness Course

[pwa]

Mt Garmin makes eccentric route choices, which I am inclined to ignore.

[sjs]

Mt Garmin makes eccentric route choices, which I am inclined to ignore.

Yes but it's in the nature of satnavs that you usually don't at the outset that the choice is eccentric.
I've come to the conclusion that built in satnavs are a very mixed blessing. They're hard to update, especially in a company vehicle, and you can't just throw them away and buy a better one.

[Cunobelin]

.... and that installed SatNavs are only available in higher end models for most cars

Not true. We had a little Peugeot 2008 - a cheap car well towards the bottom of the manufacturers range. It had built in Satnav.

your untrue claim is simply .... untrue!

Lets look at the Kia as this is the car that I drive:

KIa Venga 1 - No SatNav
Kia Venga 1 Air - No SatNav
Kia Venga 2 - No SatNav

Higher end models, Kia Venga 3 and 4 - SatNav

Your claim that all cars are fitted is not in touch with reality.

[Cunobelin]

Mt Garmin makes eccentric route choices, which I am inclined to ignore.

That is one of the many problems. Most will apply an algorithm that will either choose:

The shortest route .... even if that involves tiny country lanes
The fastest route....even if that means a 20 or 30 mile detour to get you onto a motorway, because the average speed figures in the algorithm justifies the excessive distances.

[sjs]

Mt Garmin makes eccentric route choices, which I am inclined to ignore.

That is one of the many problems. Most will apply an algorithm that will either choose:

The shortest route .... even if that involves tiny country lanes
The fastest route....even if that means a 20 or 30 mile detour to get you onto a motorway, because the average speed figures in the algorithm justifies the excessive distances.

Indeed. Sometimes you might need/want the shortest time. But almost never the absolute shortest distance. Usually something in between. I'm surprised that routing algorithms don't seem to have improved much in recent years. But then Garmin software has never been up to much IMO.

[Cunobelin]

Mt Garmin makes eccentric route choices, which I am inclined to ignore.

That is one of the many problems. Most will apply an algorithm that will either choose:

The shortest route .... even if that involves tiny country lanes
The fastest route....even if that means a 20 or 30 mile detour to get you onto a motorway, because the average speed figures in the algorithm justifies the excessive distances.

Indeed. Sometimes you might need/want the shortest time. But almost never the absolute shortest distance. Usually something in between. I'm surprised that routing algorithms don't seem to have improved much in recent years. But then Garmin software has never been up to much IMO.

Most use the same data, so the software across the board is similar.

[sjs]

Most use the same data, so the software across the board is similar.

Well there will be a limit imposed by the quality of the data, but then there's the question of what you do with that data. For instance, we had a garmin satnav which had info about traffic, and would suggest alternative, apparently quicker, routes if the original one was congested. Problem was, it didn't check the traffic on the alternative route suggestions before suggesting them. That could be quite annoying.

[Cunobelin]

Most use the same data, so the software across the board is similar.

Well there will be a limit imposed by the quality of the data, but then there's the question of what you do with that data. For instance, we had a garmin satnav which had info about traffic, and would suggest alternative, apparently quicker, routes if the original one was congested. Problem was, it didn't check the traffic on the alternative route suggestions before suggesting them. That could be quite annoying.

Again data feeds

There are a lot of systems (Google, Waze) and others that fed in the data, but do not predict.

Classic example was a problem on teh M27 near Portchester. Alternative route is Portsdown Hill which was absolutely fine. However when my colleague took the route 15 minutes later that was gridlocked, and when our late starter arrived that was also an avoidance on teh SatNav


One of the reasons I use Waze as a backup, it shows local problems long before they feed back up the chain and then back down to the SatNav

[pete75]

.... and that installed SatNavs are only available in higher end models for most cars

Not true. We had a little Peugeot 2008 - a cheap car well towards the bottom of the manufacturers range. It had built in Satnav.

your untrue claim is simply .... untrue!

Lets look at the Kia as this is the car that I drive:

KIa Venga 1 - No SatNav
Kia Venga 1 Air - No SatNav
Kia Venga 2 - No SatNav

Higher end models, Kia Venga 3 and 4 - SatNav

Your claim that all cars are fitted is not in touch with reality.

Your claim that satnav is only available in high end models is simply untrue. Look at the Peugeot range and you'll see the 2008 is certainly not one of their "high end" models. BTW I didn't claim that all cars have satnav just that it isn't only available in high end models.

[Cyril Haearn]

Maybe some vehicles have PratNav as standard and some as an option for extra cash
Maybe better to get a vehicle without so one may choose ones favoured system

[pete75]

What version? Ours works well.

c350e, basic satnav version. It's a Garmin, and not as good as the standalone Garmins we've had. Wildly inaccurate arrival time estimates (and not because of traffic conditions), eccentric route choices, failure to recalculate properly if for instance the mode is changed from shortest time to shortest distance, no account taken of road closures it knows about (for instance, on the M4, "road closure, 1 mile. Go straight on for 70 miles"). Nowhere near as good as Google on a mobile phone.

It would appear they put a different version in the E class - it uses the so called Comand system. It has live traffic updates and even recalculates if there's traffic congestion on the route. Maybe you need a software update.

[Cunobelin]

What version? Ours works well.

c350e, basic satnav version. It's a Garmin, and not as good as the standalone Garmins we've had. Wildly inaccurate arrival time estimates (and not because of traffic conditions), eccentric route choices, failure to recalculate properly if for instance the mode is changed from shortest time to shortest distance, no account taken of road closures it knows about (for instance, on the M4, "road closure, 1 mile. Go straight on for 70 miles"). Nowhere near as good as Google on a mobile phone.

It would appear they put a different version in the E class - it uses the so called Comand system. It has live traffic updates and even recalculates if there's traffic congestion on the route. Maybe you need a software update.

As above, “live updates” aren’t...they are what is fed in to the system from other sources and as a result shows delays after they happen

Quite often a diversion can itself be blocked within a short time, but it takes a lot longer for that information to sneak up the data chain and back down again

[Cunobelin]

Not true. We had a little Peugeot 2008 - a cheap car well towards the bottom of the manufacturers range. It had built in Satnav.

your untrue claim is simply .... untrue!

Lets look at the Kia as this is the car that I drive:

KIa Venga 1 - No SatNav
Kia Venga 1 Air - No SatNav
Kia Venga 2 - No SatNav

Higher end models, Kia Venga 3 and 4 - SatNav

Your claim that all cars are fitted is not in touch with reality.

Your claim that satnav is only available in high end models is simply untrue. Look at the Peugeot range and you'll see the 2008 is certainly not one of their "high end" models. BTW I didn't claim that all cars have satnav just that it isn't only available in high end models.

You didn’t

You claimed that it was available in all cars, this was corrected and you stated this was “untrue” as all modern cars had fitted SatNav

We are now back with reality and the fact that not all cars have these systems installed

[pete75]

c350e, basic satnav version. It's a Garmin, and not as good as the standalone Garmins we've had. Wildly inaccurate arrival time estimates (and not because of traffic conditions), eccentric route choices, failure to recalculate properly if for instance the mode is changed from shortest time to shortest distance, no account taken of road closures it knows about (for instance, on the M4, "road closure, 1 mile. Go straight on for 70 miles"). Nowhere near as good as Google on a mobile phone.

It would appear they put a different version in the E class - it uses the so called Comand system. It has live traffic updates and even recalculates if there's traffic congestion on the route. Maybe you need a software update.

As above, “live updates” aren’t...they are what is fed in to the system from other sources and as a result shows delays after they happen

Quite often a diversion can itself be blocked within a short time, but it takes a lot longer for that information to sneak up the data chain and back down again

They can only show delays after they've happened. You appear to expect automotive systems to have second sight and predict delays before they happen.

[pete75]

your untrue claim is simply .... untrue!

Lets look at the Kia as this is the car that I drive:

KIa Venga 1 - No SatNav
Kia Venga 1 Air - No SatNav
Kia Venga 2 - No SatNav

Higher end models, Kia Venga 3 and 4 - SatNav

Your claim that all cars are fitted is not in touch with reality.

Your claim that satnav is only available in high end models is simply untrue. Look at the Peugeot range and you'll see the 2008 is certainly not one of their "high end" models. BTW I didn't claim that all cars have satnav just that it isn't only available in high end models.

You didn’t

You claimed that it was available in all cars, this was corrected and you stated this was “untrue” as all modern cars had fitted SatNav

We are now back with reality and the fact that not all cars have these systems installed

I made no such claim - I said all the cars I've bought in the past few years have it - well apart from the Series 2A Landrover I bought last year. What is untrue is your claim it's only available in "high end" models. You said you have a Kia Venga - a fairly low end car in the Kia range. You also said it's available with satnav. Even a lot of motorbikes seem to have it too - my BMW R1200GS came with a manufacturer fitted device