Speed Awareness Course

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thirdcrank
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby thirdcrank » 6 Jan 2019, 8:24pm

Mick F wrote:... Question:
If she does the SAC and has no points on her licence, where is it recorded that she has done this course, and also, how will anyone know to sting her harder next time?

Is there a log about this and if so, can you access it to check, and who else can check it?
If it's not on your licence, how long is the threat of doing it again still hanging over you?


Early on this thread I linked to some old ACPO stuff which said the DVLA kept a record.

I've just discovered - not by going on a course, BTW - that there is now an organisation called UKROEd which does the admin for these courses and maintains the database. If I've read the stuff correctly, they say you won't be offered another course within three years of the offence and the info is retained on the database for six years from the date of the offence "for road safety research purposes."

(Without ploughing through the whole thread I searched and nobody seems to have posted this: sorry if I've missed it.)

http://www.ukroed.org.uk/about-us/

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mjr
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby mjr » 6 Jan 2019, 10:46pm

Mick F wrote:The facts are, that speedos are wrong and over-read by design, but the odometers are correct by design.

If the tyres and pressures are variable, the odometer is still correct. It could be a tiny bit out, but the speedo is always wrong and always over-reading by loads.

Not always wrong because on some cars, you can connect to the computer port and set the adjustment factor to whatever you want!

Of course, if you set it so it reads outside the limits Vorpal posted, you should fail an MoT, at best.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Bonefishblues
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby Bonefishblues » 6 Jan 2019, 11:41pm

... although it never would, because it's accuracy isn't tested. The tester might notice if it didn't work at all, but that's about it.

irc
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby irc » 7 Jan 2019, 6:17am

Mick F wrote: but the speedo is always wrong and always over-reading by loads.


It varies IMO. Not always loads. I drive various vehicles at work, often with my personal GPS. Going by the GPS the speedos vary at a true 70mph from 77mph to 72mph. 72mph is about as accurate as you can get to allow for tyre wear without ever under reading. 77mph is why I go by my SAtNav on long trips so I'm doing 70mph where legal and not 64mph.

pwa
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby pwa » 7 Jan 2019, 6:37am

If and when a vehicle manufacturer comes up with a speedo that works and actually tells you what speed you are doing (imagine that!) all other speedos will look out of date. There will be a rush to catch up. There is no benefit to inaccurate information. It helps nobody.

kwackers
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby kwackers » 7 Jan 2019, 10:19am

pwa wrote:If and when a vehicle manufacturer comes up with a speedo that works and actually tells you what speed you are doing (imagine that!) all other speedos will look out of date. There will be a rush to catch up. There is no benefit to inaccurate information. It helps nobody.

I'd say it helps everyone.

Find any car centric forum and you'll find petrol heads complaining about speed limits and in particular how hard it is to stick to a set speed (you'll also get the usual "modern cars, modern brakes") etc etc.

So it seems that people who really like cars have real difficulty controlling their right foot so giving them a bit of 'leg room' helps them enormously.
For the rest of us you can drive at an indicated speed without worrying about a bit of needle wobble and for those outside the car that results in an overall reduction in average speed.

Seems like a win win to me.

IMO anyone that is going to sit watching an accurate digital display sit on an exact speed is a danger to themselves and those around them. If you want to do that buy a modern car with adaptive cruise control.
Not that in my experience it makes that much difference, traffic speeds are a continually variable feast at best.

pwa
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby pwa » 7 Jan 2019, 3:25pm

kwackers wrote:
pwa wrote:If and when a vehicle manufacturer comes up with a speedo that works and actually tells you what speed you are doing (imagine that!) all other speedos will look out of date. There will be a rush to catch up. There is no benefit to inaccurate information. It helps nobody.

I'd say it helps everyone.

Find any car centric forum and you'll find petrol heads complaining about speed limits and in particular how hard it is to stick to a set speed (you'll also get the usual "modern cars, modern brakes") etc etc.

So it seems that people who really like cars have real difficulty controlling their right foot so giving them a bit of 'leg room' helps them enormously.
For the rest of us you can drive at an indicated speed without worrying about a bit of needle wobble and for those outside the car that results in an overall reduction in average speed.

Seems like a win win to me.

IMO anyone that is going to sit watching an accurate digital display sit on an exact speed is a danger to themselves and those around them. If you want to do that buy a modern car with adaptive cruise control.
Not that in my experience it makes that much difference, traffic speeds are a continually variable feast at best.

Nah. Our current overestimating speedos are like the clock my Mum used to keep five minutes ahead so that everyone would be ready for things five minutes early. We just factored it in.

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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby Vorpal » 7 Jan 2019, 3:57pm

Speedos are accurate... according to how they are claibrated.

But tyre changes, tyre pressure, and even road surface can affect the accuracy. Some cars can and do accomodate changes in tyre and tyre pressure. Differences in road surface are outside the control of the manufacturer.

They could use a completely different type of system, but why should they develop something new, when they have something that works and meets legal requirements?

As for the current inaccuracy, the acceptable range of calibration is established by international agreement. If you would like it changed you need to bring it up with The World Forum for Harmonization of Vehicle Regulations.
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pwa
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby pwa » 7 Jan 2019, 4:07pm

I'd just like a speedo that tells me I'm doing 25mph when I am actually doing 25mph. A speedo that gives me a figure that is not correct is wrong, and I would have expected something better by now. As it is, we all go round knowing our speedos are overstating our true speed and doing mental arithmetic to get a more accurate figure. I suppose that might be good mental exercise though.

landsurfer
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby landsurfer » 7 Jan 2019, 4:12pm

pwa wrote:I'd just like a speedo that tells me I'm doing 25mph when I am actually doing 25mph. A speedo that gives me a figure that is not correct is wrong, and I would have expected something better by now. As it is, we all go round knowing our speedos are overstating our true speed and doing mental arithmetic to get a more accurate figure. I suppose that might be good mental exercise though.


There was a case publicised in the 80's where a driver overturned a conviction for speeding as his BL manufactured speedo had the wrong magnet fitted and was under reading. And possibly a few thousand others as well.
The speedo in my 2018 Isuzu reads about 10% over ... at 70 i'm actually doing 63 - 64.
My sat nag is spot on so i tend to have both on the screen at the same time...
My Garmin hand held shows the same as the sat nag fitted to the car.

Calibration values are the main reason for factory fitted speedo's over reading as the manufactures can do without a land slide of court cases if their equipment under-reads.
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Bonefishblues
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby Bonefishblues » 7 Jan 2019, 4:16pm

pwa wrote:I'd just like a speedo that tells me I'm doing 25mph when I am actually doing 25mph. A speedo that gives me a figure that is not correct is wrong, and I would have expected something better by now. As it is, we all go round knowing our speedos are overstating our true speed and doing mental arithmetic to get a more accurate figure. I suppose that might be good mental exercise though.

Use a real-time digital speed app, possibly using it projected as a HUD. Free from Google Play, but beware they aren't guaranteed to be real-time, there may be a small amount of lag.

thirdcrank
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby thirdcrank » 7 Jan 2019, 4:19pm

A belated apology for having inadvertently revived the speedo accuracy debate when I was only trying to answer MickF's OP. :oops:

As he's been unusually slow to pick up on it I checked his profile and I see that today is the twelfth anniversary of his joining this "new" forum: Happy Birthday to you!

pwa
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby pwa » 7 Jan 2019, 4:20pm

Bonefishblues wrote:
pwa wrote:I'd just like a speedo that tells me I'm doing 25mph when I am actually doing 25mph. A speedo that gives me a figure that is not correct is wrong, and I would have expected something better by now. As it is, we all go round knowing our speedos are overstating our true speed and doing mental arithmetic to get a more accurate figure. I suppose that might be good mental exercise though.

Use a real-time digital speed app, possibly using it projected as a HUD. Free from Google Play, but beware they aren't guaranteed to be real-time, there may be a small amount of lag.

I use a satnav to get a more accurate reading, though, as you say, you have to be careful about lag. And that gives me a feel for how far my speedo is below my actual speed. 10% or so.

Bonefishblues
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby Bonefishblues » 7 Jan 2019, 4:22pm

pwa wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
pwa wrote:I'd just like a speedo that tells me I'm doing 25mph when I am actually doing 25mph. A speedo that gives me a figure that is not correct is wrong, and I would have expected something better by now. As it is, we all go round knowing our speedos are overstating our true speed and doing mental arithmetic to get a more accurate figure. I suppose that might be good mental exercise though.

Use a real-time digital speed app, possibly using it projected as a HUD. Free from Google Play, but beware they aren't guaranteed to be real-time, there may be a small amount of lag.

I use a satnav to get a more accurate reading, though, as you say, you have to be careful about lag. And that gives me a feel for how far my speedo is below my actual speed. 10% or so.

Several of what I was mentioning:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... d&hl=en_GB

thirdcrank
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby thirdcrank » 7 Jan 2019, 4:23pm

pwa wrote: ... I use a satnav to get a more accurate reading, though, as you say, you have to be careful about lag. And that gives me a feel for how far my speedo is below my actual speed. 10% or so.


Are you sure about that because the waggle room is the other way? ie it's OK to have a speedo that overreads by up to 10%, but any underread is illegal these days.