Speed Awareness Course

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Cunobelin
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby Cunobelin » 20 Aug 2018, 9:10am

ibbo68 wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:
ibbo68 wrote:


Has what?
Not all car drivers are thick,stupid,inconsiderate and irresponsible.If you want to start the car driver/Cyclist debate then do so but there are just as many Cyclists who fall into that category.


Not what was said, there are however some that are, you need to legislate for them

No matter which angle you want to come from the figures RE stopping distances are wrong....miles out in fact.These figures give people like you ammunition that is akin to firing blanks...ie useless :roll:


Absolute tripe (apart from totally ignoring the point that the driver is the issue)...... to make these insults you will need to provide evidence..... me I will take that of the TRL and RAC who support my point

Commenting on a new study by the Transport Research Laboratory (TRL) for road safety charity Brake that suggests Highway Code stopping distances might be due an update, RAC spokesman Rod Dennis said:

“These findings from Brake and TRL are striking and should be taken seriously. From time to time, new evidence will come to light that means it is necessary to update the Highway Code and perhaps this is one such instance.

“While the ability for cars to be able to brake more quickly has improved, our reaction times clearly haven’t. And arguably, our reaction times might even have got worse due to all the distractions that have made their way into the car environment – none more so than the smartphone that constantly demands our attention.

“Many drivers believe they are capable of doing far more at the wheel than they actually are, but the fact remains that driving is one of the most mentally demanding tasks any of us do and we shouldn’t forget that.”


...or perhaps the RAC and TRL are using ammunition that is akin to firing blanks...ie useless (Or simple inconvenient for you?)
I await the evidence from you that supports your claim and shows why the TRL research is invalid


Do you drive?


Yes.......

If so try the experiment yourself and you will find that a modern car will actually stop at 50mph in the distance quoted at 30mph in the Highway Code...easily.


Thank you so much for supporting my point

The CAR can stop in these distances, it is the drivers who are the problem

Rather than an experiment, lets look at reality?

At the junction in question I have never failed to stop, nor have any of my neighbours, or the many parents doing the School run, nor the drivers attending the frequent car boot sales or other events (thousands of vehicles per year).... yet 12 drivers did, causing injury accidents and one fatality. I think the evidence is that the cars can stop, but either all of these drivers were driving 50 yearly cars (not the case) or simply failed to brake at the junction )evidenced by Police reports)



If you don't drive then you really don't have the knowledge to comment :roll:


Again ignoring the pettiness, why is this relevant?
There is evidence that a 5 year old could understand, your position is absurd, bit like claiming that you have to be a food inspector to know that al loaf of bread is mouldy or that the lumpy stinking milk in your fridge is "off

Oh dear.
What is your point again.I got bored halfway through your(tedious) ramblings?



By tedious ramblings you mean pointing out that the development of cars is irrelevant and that there is evidence to support in.

In the meanwhile dismissing this evidence as "tedious ramblings translates as the fact that you will not admit that you were wrong , and that you will not be attempting to justify your absurd unevidenced and untrue claim that " These figures give people like you ammunition that is akin to firing blanks...ie useless :roll:" with any evidence

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Cunobelin
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby Cunobelin » 20 Aug 2018, 9:18am

thirdcrank wrote:
ibbo68 wrote: ...So why make the (useless) point that you did?


I was merely adding my support to the bit of a post you edited out when you quoted it.



The fact is that stopping distances in the real world have increased, and the evidence points to driver attitude and ability being the main factor has been proven

I think we need to accept that there will simply be a dismissal of the reality as "useless", "firing blanks", "tedious" as there is no structured or coherent reply that can be made to refute the evidence, so it will simply be ignored, edited out or dismissed

Ironically it is this who do not recognise that stopping distances are longer that are the real danger, especially if they actually believe this misproven myth and drive to those standards.

pwa
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby pwa » 20 Aug 2018, 4:24pm

The car I currently drive will stop in a shorter distance than the Mk 2 Ford Escort I learned to drive in. I can't quote any figures but I am pretty certain of that. Better brakes and tyres, ABS. Does that mean I take up the slack by going faster and leaving less distance to the vehicle in front? I don't think so. If anything I think awareness of those safety issues is at least as high as when cars were crap. Awareness of the unacceptability of drink (or drug) driving is far greater. So my impression is that real life stopping distances are lower now.

brynpoeth
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby brynpoeth » 20 Aug 2018, 4:35pm

pwa wrote:The car I currently drive will stop in a shorter distance than the Mk 2 Ford Escort I learned to drive in. I can't quote any figures but I am pretty certain of that. Better brakes and tyres, ABS. Does that mean I take up the slack by going faster and leaving less distance to the vehicle in front? I don't think so
..
..

Maybe you do not, but I cannae reliably remember what I did 30 years ago, learnt to drive in a Micra, it seemed big then but has got smaller since :wink:
Surely many follow too close, I think more do now, modern vehicles are nippier too so it is easier to catch up, -1
Leaving plenty of room as I do is not normal
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thirdcrank
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby thirdcrank » 20 Aug 2018, 4:35pm

pwa wrote:The car I currently drive will stop in a shorter distance than the Mk 2 Ford Escort I learned to drive in. I can't quote any figures but I am pretty certain of that. Better brakes and tyres, ABS. Does that mean I take up the slack by going faster and leaving less distance to the vehicle in front? I don't think so. If anything I think awareness of those safety issues is at least as high as when cars were crap. Awareness of the unacceptability of drink (or drug) driving is far greater. So my impression is that real life stopping distances are lower now.


Some of the biggest changes I've seen are in the areas of acceleration and top speed. Even some of today's smallest cars will outperform cars that were considered performance models only a few years ago. Not everybody disregards all this by any means, but some do. As an example, you need only stand on a bridge over a main road to see some drivers tailgating others so closely that if anything happened a collision would be inevitable. FWIW, no matter what the capabilities of a motor vehicle, it's ultimately down to the driver and if they are distracted even for a second, the finest brakes and tyres available won't begin to work till they return their attention to the road, realise that the situation has changed then react.

pwa
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby pwa » 20 Aug 2018, 4:40pm

brynpoeth wrote:
pwa wrote:The car I currently drive will stop in a shorter distance than the Mk 2 Ford Escort I learned to drive in. I can't quote any figures but I am pretty certain of that. Better brakes and tyres, ABS. Does that mean I take up the slack by going faster and leaving less distance to the vehicle in front? I don't think so
..
..

Maybe you do not, but I cannae reliably remember what I did 30 years ago, learnt to drive in a Micra, it seemed big then but has got smaller since :wink:
Surely many follow too close, I think more do now, modern vehicles are nippier too so it is easier to catch up, -1
Leaving plenty of room as I do is not normal

If you think driving was better in days of yore I think you misremember.

brynpoeth
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby brynpoeth » 20 Aug 2018, 4:46pm

pwa wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:
pwa wrote:The car I currently drive will stop in a shorter distance than the Mk 2 Ford Escort I learned to drive in. I can't quote any figures but I am pretty certain of that. Better brakes and tyres, ABS. Does that mean I take up the slack by going faster and leaving less distance to the vehicle in front? I don't think so
..
..

Maybe you do not, but I cannae reliably remember what I did 30 years ago, learnt to drive in a Micra, it seemed big then but has got smaller since :wink:
Surely many follow too close, I think more do now, modern vehicles are nippier too so it is easier to catch up, -1
Leaving plenty of room as I do is not normal

If you think driving was better in days of yore I think you misremember.

There was less speeding back then and driving was harder (no power steering, double declutching), +1?
Un-fortunately I did not learn double declutching

Some vehicles did not have enough gears, but reverse was very low, I was told about a van that could only ascend Arthog Hill backwards :wink:
A nice Rural Legend at least
Last edited by brynpoeth on 20 Aug 2018, 8:02pm, edited 2 times in total.
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pwa
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby pwa » 20 Aug 2018, 4:46pm

thirdcrank wrote:
pwa wrote:The car I currently drive will stop in a shorter distance than the Mk 2 Ford Escort I learned to drive in. I can't quote any figures but I am pretty certain of that. Better brakes and tyres, ABS. Does that mean I take up the slack by going faster and leaving less distance to the vehicle in front? I don't think so. If anything I think awareness of those safety issues is at least as high as when cars were crap. Awareness of the unacceptability of drink (or drug) driving is far greater. So my impression is that real life stopping distances are lower now.


Some of the biggest changes I've seen are in the areas of acceleration and top speed. Even some of today's smallest cars will outperform cars that were considered performance models only a few years ago. Not everybody disregards all this by any means, but some do. As an example, you need only stand on a bridge over a main road to see some drivers tailgating others so closely that if anything happened a collision would be inevitable. FWIW, no matter what the capabilities of a motor vehicle, it's ultimately down to the driver and if they are distracted even for a second, the finest brakes and tyres available won't begin to work till they return their attention to the road, realise that the situation has changed then react.

True, but tailgating is as old as the hills. So is fiddling with stuff you ought not to be fiddling with while driving. A numpty lighting a cigarette while tailgating in a Ford Capri would not have been safe, and that sort of thing was common when I first drove. Driving under the influence was more common. And that really does increase your stopping distance.

pwa
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby pwa » 20 Aug 2018, 4:53pm

brynpoeth wrote:
pwa wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:Maybe you do not, but I cannae reliably remember what I did 30 years ago, learnt to drive in a Micra, it seemed big then but has got smaller since :wink:
Surely many follow too close, I think more do now, modern vehicles are nippier too so it is easier to catch up, -1
Leaving plenty of room as I do is not normal

If you think driving was better in days of yore I think you misremember.

There was less speeding back then and driving was harder (no power steering, double declutching), +1?
Un-fortunately I did not learn double declutching

Double declutching! Were you driving in the 1950s? :lol: I remember speeding being more common in the 1970s, when you heard a lot more people openly say they did the limit plus 10mph and thought that okay and socially responsible. I don't remember a golden age of good driving.

thirdcrank
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby thirdcrank » 20 Aug 2018, 4:57pm

Probably the biggest change I've seen is in the volume of traffic. This has various effects, including there's more likely to be something coming the other way around that blind bend and drivers becoming frustrated and so, in some cases, more likely to take risks eg when emerging from side roads or overtaking. This can disproportionately endanger cyclists who may be more likely to be treated as a gap in a stream of traffic.

I'd agree about the effects of alcohol and I hope that recent suggestions that more drivers are willing to take the risk believing their chances of being stopped are minimal.
================================================================
Yes in the good old days - ie when I stood and operated a roadside radar the size of a decent sideboard, it was 10% + 10mph ie 43 in a 30. We caught plenty and most were miffed.

pete75
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby pete75 » 20 Aug 2018, 7:56pm

pwa wrote:If you think driving was better in days of yore I think you misremember.


Less of the Trumpisms please.

I don't think driving standards have changed much. I do about 20,000 miles a year now and maybe 10,000 miles per annum 40 years ago. I didn't see much bad driving back then and I don't see much now.

brynpoeth
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby brynpoeth » 20 Aug 2018, 8:07pm

It is very hard to be sure what one saw decades ago, one calls up the memory of the memory of the recollection, anyone disagree?
Cycled a lot starting 1973, luckily cars were not so fast back then

Observing traffic now: the majority break the law, many commit two or more offences at once. Some of the offences were not possible back then. Speeding was possible but is easier now, -1
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby Mick F » 20 Aug 2018, 8:21pm

pwa wrote:Double declutching! Were you driving in the 1950s? :lol:
I was doing it in the late 70s in a Triumph Herald with poor synchromesh. Changing up was ok, but changing down was difficult unless you double declutched.
Mick F. Cornwall

brynpoeth
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby brynpoeth » 20 Aug 2018, 8:48pm

Mick F wrote:
pwa wrote:Double declutching! Were you driving in the 1950s? :lol:
I was doing it in the late 70s in a Triumph Herald with poor synchromesh. Changing up was ok, but changing down was difficult unless you double declutched.

Would you care to describe exactly how to DDC? It is one of those things one has heard of without really knowing what it is. Like a traffic policeperson maybe ("D&C")
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Cunobelin
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Re: Speed Awareness Course

Postby Cunobelin » 20 Aug 2018, 8:51pm

pwa wrote:The car I currently drive will stop in a shorter distance than the Mk 2 Ford Escort I learned to drive in. I can't quote any figures but I am pretty certain of that. Better brakes and tyres, ABS. Does that mean I take up the slack by going faster and leaving less distance to the vehicle in front? I don't think so. If anything I think awareness of those safety issues is at least as high as when cars were crap. Awareness of the unacceptability of drink (or drug) driving is far greater. So my impression is that real life stopping distances are lower now.


Not according to TRL...........

Don’t forget that an individual may have faster responses, not be watching the satnav, on their phone etc

These are the ones that need to be legislated for