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Speed Awareness Course

Posted: 16 Aug 2018, 4:22pm
by Mick F
Not me! :shock: :lol: :lol:

A friend of ours was stopped by a speed trap 39 in a 30 limit a week or two ago.
She has a £100 fine plus three points on her licence .....or ..... £88 fine plus do the SAC but have no points. She'll be doing the SAC, and quite rightly too.

She has been told that if she gets caught again, they will sting her hard.

Question:
If she does the SAC and has no points on her licence, where is it recorded that she has done this course, and also, how will anyone know to sting her harder next time?

Is there a log about this and if so, can you access it to check, and who else can check it?
If it's not on your licence, how long is the threat of doing it again still hanging over you?

Re: Speed Awareness Course

Posted: 16 Aug 2018, 4:57pm
by thirdcrank
I suspect the £88 is the local fee for the course. There's no fixed amount charged for that and you don't have to go on a local course. I don't know the technicalities but AFAIK, you have to complete a course within a fixed period and prove to the force issuing the penalty that you have done so.

I've no idea how this is logged.
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PS I'm unclear about the need to access the information. If you have done a course, you will know about it. The only way it might record you having completed a course when you hadn't would be if somebody gave your details then intercepted the post and did the course pretending to be you. I suppose somebody might go to the trouble of stealing your ID, then notifying DVLA of a change of address but that seems far-fetched.

I suppose you could make a subject access request to all 43 territorial police forces to see what they held...........

Re: Speed Awareness Course

Posted: 16 Aug 2018, 5:04pm
by Mick F
thirdcrank wrote:I've no idea how this is logged.
That's my concern.

I understand the local course versus doing it somewhere convenient etc, but no doubt you end up with a certificate and receipt system, which you send off to the court(?) and the police to record it so you don't involve DVLA.

Who records it on your record?

Re: Speed Awareness Course

Posted: 16 Aug 2018, 6:25pm
by Ben@Forest
Mick F wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:I've no idea how this is logged.
That's my concern.

I understand the local course versus doing it somewhere convenient etc, but no doubt you end up with a certificate and receipt system, which you send off to the court(?) and the police to record it so you don't involve DVLA.

Who records it on your record?


I've done one recently (oops). In that experience the firm running it was responsible for telling the police you've done it, you did nothing except attend. The course instructors were also keen on stressing anonymity - others on the course may not want to be identified if you happened to bump into them again - so there was certainly no certificate.

Your friend is lucky - l was caught doing 35 in a 30 and was told if it had been another 1mph over (i.e. 20% over the speed limit or more) there would have been no choice - just the 3 points and fine.

Re: Speed Awareness Course

Posted: 16 Aug 2018, 7:58pm
by fausto copy
Be warned of the term "local".

It's local to where you were caught.
A mate of mine was caught in Southampton and had to return there in order to keep his clean licence.
That cost him £50 in fuel and a hotel overnight stay, so not just a cheap and convenient kop-out. :wink:

Re: Speed Awareness Course

Posted: 16 Aug 2018, 8:22pm
by Mick F
Mick F wrote:She has been told that if she gets caught again, they will sting her hard.
................ is the threat of doing it again still hanging over you?
How do they know?

Perhaps they don't, and it's it just scare tactics?

Re: Speed Awareness Course

Posted: 16 Aug 2018, 8:26pm
by brynpoeth
Mick F wrote:
Mick F wrote:She has been told that if she gets caught again, they will sting her hard.
................ is the threat of doing it again still hanging over you?
How do they know?

Perhaps they don't, and it's it just scare tactics?

Does it work a bit like probation, is the punishment applied if one is caught again?

At school we had to do lines, write a hundred times:

I must not exceed the maximum speed limit
I must not exceed the maximum speed limit
I must not exceed the maximum speed limit
..
..

Re: Speed Awareness Course

Posted: 16 Aug 2018, 8:33pm
by Mick F
That's my question.

If one is caught for speeding and does the SAC and pays a reduced fine but receives zero points ................... can the speeder continually do this, as his/her licence will remain completely clean?

Where is the record kept?
Who knows if you are a serial speeder?

Re: Speed Awareness Course

Posted: 16 Aug 2018, 8:35pm
by thirdcrank
Some record must be kept or there would be no way of knowing that an alleged offender had complied with the conditions of the offer of a course as an alternative to prosecution. I presume that such records are subject to normal data protection rules and in particular the length of time they are retained. It seems general that after three years, somebody who has attended a course may be offered another so there's no obvious reason to keep a record longer.

On a practical note, prosecutions are expensive so courses save forces money at that level, even though there offer repeated assurances that they are not cash cows.

I don't think there's much standardisation, which is why prices vary.

Re: Speed Awareness Course

Posted: 16 Aug 2018, 8:38pm
by Ben@Forest
Mick F wrote:
Mick F wrote:She has been told that if she gets caught again, they will sting her hard.
................ is the threat of doing it again still hanging over you?
How do they know?

Perhaps they don't, and it's it just scare tactics?


They keep a record somewhere because like points it is expunged after three years, you cannot do another speed course in that 3 years, if you're caught it's automatic points. I know someone who has done 2 speed courses - but 10 years apart - so the first one had evidently been removed from his 'record'.

Re: Speed Awareness Course

Posted: 16 Aug 2018, 8:48pm
by Mick F
Yes, I guess there is a record - there must be. It wouldn't work if there wasn't a record.

Where is it?
Who holds it?
How long do they hold it?
What are the rules about this?
Who regulates it?
Does it mean that DVLA have the info and it's a sort of secret code on your driving record?
Do the insurance people know it even though it's not on your driving licence?
Do you have to declare it?

Re: Speed Awareness Course

Posted: 16 Aug 2018, 9:03pm
by landsurfer
Well ... in my experience the recording is local... You will be told you cannot do a second course within 2 years .. but that is only in the recording area.
If you offend in a different area within the time period you may well be offered a course rather than points.
As i was ....

Re: Speed Awareness Course

Posted: 16 Aug 2018, 9:11pm
by Tail End Charlie
fausto copy wrote:Be warned of the term "local".

It's local to where you were caught.
A mate of mine was caught in Southampton and had to return there in order to keep his clean licence.
That cost him £50 in fuel and a hotel overnight stay, so not just a cheap and convenient kop-out. :wink:


Don't think that's true. I was zapped in Cumbria and did the course in Manchester. As I recall, when booking the course (it was online) you could choose the area in which to take the course.

Re: Speed Awareness Course

Posted: 16 Aug 2018, 9:14pm
by landsurfer
Tail End Charlie wrote:
Don't think that's true. I was zapped in Cumbria and did the course in Manchester. As I recall, when booking the course (it was online) you could choose the area in which to take the course.


Yes that seems to be the way ... if you cannot complete the course in the appropriate time scale in the area of the offence you can elect to attend the course in an other area ...

Re: Speed Awareness Course

Posted: 16 Aug 2018, 10:07pm
by thirdcrank
Mick F wrote:Yes, I guess there is a record - there must be. It wouldn't work if there wasn't a record.

Where is it?
Who holds it?
How long do they hold it?
What are the rules about this?
Who regulates it?
Does it mean that DVLA have the info and it's a sort of secret code on your driving record?
Do the insurance people know it even though it's not on your driving licence?
Do you have to declare it?


You might consider a bit of research beyond a cycling forum eg contacting your own police authority.
https://www.devon-cornwall.police.uk/
In the meantime, there seems to be an assumption that because this isn't recorded on driving licences, the DVLA doesn't record it. By googling, I've found this from the ACPO, an organisation which has been superseded so it's not current, and it's from a link on another forum, but there's no reason to assume that much as changed.
Speed Awareness Courses will be offered to any driver who meets the individual force cutoff level within the national band and who has not previously attended a course within the last 3 years (authenticated by entry on the DVLA Database).(My emphasis.)

http://www.ukmotorists.com/guidance%20f ... 0speed.asp
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PS
Re: location of courses, there's a national booking system here:
https://www.gov.uk/book-national-driver ... ing-course