Should electric bikes be allowed on Audax events?

[Mick F]

If it's a legal pedelec I can't see that being the case TBH

Why not? Mick on form = 200W (ie not Chris Froome - other examples available), e-bike through a gearing system at 250W plus Mick's friend giving it some to prove a point at 200W = 450W on a hill so mostly power proportional to speed. That and the probability that the e-bike will produce a bit more than 250W for a shorter time than specified for the 250W rating

There's only one way to find out.....

Go for a ride with him up Gunny Hill!

[reohn2]

Why not? Mick on form = 200W (ie not Chris Froome - other examples available), e-bike through a gearing system at 250W plus Mick's friend giving it some to prove a point at 200W = 450W on a hill so mostly power proportional to speed. That and the probability that the e-bike will produce a bit more than 250W for a shorter time than specified for the 250W rating

There's only one way to find out.....

Go for a ride with him up Gunny Hill!

Yep!

[mumbojumbo]

I think the whole audax thing is somewhat precious,and if others choose to use an ebike,chemical stimulants,wind-assistance etc. should make no difference to the achievements of the genuine rider.However I cannot see how an e-bike rider can get any sense of achievement.Personally I ride bikes to get somewhere and am unconcerned about proving my fitness to myself or others.I can stand all the rules about mudguards,lights etc.

[reohn2]

I think the whole audax thing is somewhat precious,and if others choose to use an ebike,chemical stimulants,wind-assistance etc. should make no difference to the achievements of the genuine rider. However I cannot see how an e-bike rider can get any sense of achievement.Personally I ride bikes to get somewhere and am unconcerned about proving my fitness to myself or others.I can stand all the rules about mudguards,lights etc.

It depends on what they seek to achieve,if it's just to complete the distance then I agree,but people may enter Audax events for different reasons.

[meic]

I think the whole audax thing is somewhat precious,and if others choose to use an ebike,chemical stimulants,wind-assistance etc. should make no difference to the achievements of the genuine rider.However I cannot see how an e-bike rider can get any sense of achievement.Personally I ride bikes to get somewhere and am unconcerned about proving my fitness to myself or others.I can stand all the rules about mudguards,lights etc.

I am guessing that you meant to say that you can not stand all the rules about mudguards, lights etc.
In which case you will be relieved to know that the rules about lights are nothing to do with Audax but the normal UK laws, enforced (or not) by the police, I have not ridden an Audax where there was a compulsory mudguard requirement enforced and I would be very impressed if anybody could actually find any Audax with a mudguard requirement.

[PH]

I would be very impressed if anybody could actually find any Audax with a mudguard requirement.

Happy to oblige
http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/18-398/

I did one from the same organiser earlier in the year which also required mudguards. I think it might be the only one I've done this year and it's certainly getting less common, I don't pay much attention as the bikes I'll use for Audax have them anyway.. Where I have noticed it's a requirement it's with good reason, as above, group riding in fenland after a bit of rain without them is unfair to the other riders and the controls.

[PH]

I think the whole audax thing is somewhat precious,and if others choose to use an ebike,chemical stimulants,wind-assistance etc. should make no difference to the achievements of the genuine rider.However I cannot see how an e-bike rider can get any sense of achievement.

Well I'm sure the e-bike riders are very grateful for your support and opinion that they're not genuine riders.
Have you ever ridden in a group with an e-bike? Put one on the front and everyone benefits, particularly into a headwind

[landsurfer]

I have recently ridden with an ebike rider on a lejog .... after 3 days of him laughing and making comments as he whined up hills that where killing the rest of us ... words where had !

[meic]

I would be very impressed if anybody could actually find any Audax with a mudguard requirement.

Happy to oblige
http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/18-398/

I did one from the same organiser earlier in the year which also required mudguards. I think it might be the only one I've done this year and it's certainly getting less common, I don't pay much attention as the bikes I'll use for Audax have them anyway.. Where I have noticed it's a requirement it's with good reason, as above, group riding in fenland after a bit of rain without them is unfair to the other riders and the controls.

I am duly impressed, do you know if the rule was strictly enforced, broadly but not entirely respected or pretty much ignored?
Mudguards seem to be disappearing from our local Audax scene as "guests" from local race clubs are outnumbering the old school regulars, at least at 200k and less.

[PH]

I would be very impressed if anybody could actually find any Audax with a mudguard requirement.

Happy to oblige
http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/18-398/

I did one from the same organiser earlier in the year which also required mudguards. I think it might be the only one I've done this year and it's certainly getting less common, I don't pay much attention as the bikes I'll use for Audax have them anyway.. Where I have noticed it's a requirement it's with good reason, as above, group riding in fenland after a bit of rain without them is unfair to the other riders and the controls.

I am duly impressed, do you know if the rule was strictly enforced, broadly but not entirely respected or pretty much ignored?
Mudguards seem to be disappearing from our local Audax scene as "guests" from local race clubs are outnumbering the old school regulars, at least at 200k and less.

The ride was Hereward the Wake in the middle of the July heatwave, I didn't pay that much attention but from memory all those I rode with or saw at the controls seemed to have guards. I don't think there was any enforcement, it was clear in the ride description that came with the route sheet and I think everyone respected that, IMO it'd be extremely rude not to.
I'm not sure relaxing the rules was a good idea, I've done a few where I'd have preferred all riders to be using them. I know there's the argument that I don't have to ride in that group, but the emphasis should be on them not me. It's all part of the wannabe racer thing, yet the actual racers I know wouldn't think of going on a wet training ride without guards.

as "guests" from local race clubs are outnumbering the old school regulars, at least at 200k and less.

Yes, I think the longer events attract less racers, though the popularity of endurance racing is changing that.

[Audax67]

I have recently ridden with an ebike rider on a lejog .... after 3 days of him laughing and making comments as he whined up hills that where killing the rest of us ... words were had !

Sure, until his battery ran out and he had to pedal 25 kg of velocipede with nobbut his thews. Our club prez, having a dickey heart, recently went electric and is a pain in the butternuts to ride with: on the flat he holds it down to 20-22 kph as being optimal for the battery, while on the climbs he breezes up as above. If I want to remain companionable I match his speed, but if I ride at my own speed I leave him far behind on descents or on the flat and usually make it up the next hill before he catches up, whereupon I'm away again.

Last Sunday we set out on a 100k circuit together. The first 25k were rising false flat with the odd short hill. By the first control so much of his battery was gone that he defaulted to the 80k circuit.

Anyway: should eBikes be allowed on Audax events? <evil glee>Yes, but only on 200k or over, and no recharging allowed.</evil glee>

[[XAP]Bob]

I think the whole audax thing is somewhat precious,and if others choose to use an ebike,chemical stimulants,wind-assistance etc. should make no difference to the achievements of the genuine rider. However I cannot see how an e-bike rider can get any sense of achievement.Personally I ride bikes to get somewhere and am unconcerned about proving my fitness to myself or others.I can stand all the rules about mudguards,lights etc.

You can't see how they can get any sort of achievement...

I suggest that's a problem with your imagination and/or empathy than it is with e-bikes.

[Si]

I used to view cycling as a challenge. I did it both for the enjoyment of simply riding and for the pride in constantly trying to better what I'd done before and what others had done. Thus I liked audaxes as doing one meant that I had achieved something (something that 99.9+% of the population could not do).

In this frame of mind I would have said that allowing ebikes into audaxes was not something I would support. Audaxing is about long distance, self supported cycling under your own power. An ebike means that it is not all done under your own power and thus an ebike rider has no right to claim to have achieved what I achieved. I believed there are three main reasons for an ebike: non-age related disability (minority), age-related lack of fitness (can't manage what you used to....but many audaxers are quite senior), and non-age-related lack of fitness (the majority). this latter category should certainly not be claiming the same achievement as I have. The other two categories may claim an achievement but it should be under their own classification to differentiate from "real"(tm) audaxers.

These days my views are somewhat different. Cycling should not chiefly be a sport or competitive or challenging. It should be an activity that all can take part in regardless of ability, as "active travel": you know the story - reduces pollution, social isolation, income based movement restriction, poor standards of health, etc etc. Thus I welcome any organisation that makes cycling more inclusive. Audax may have started as a touring competition for those who wanted to do more distance than anyone else and keep score, but I think it is widening its horizons now as demonstrated by the fact that there are many more 50km rides available (can you imagine the uproar in the early days of audax if anyone had claimed a 50km as a "distance" ride!). It now helps to get people into cycling or motivate them to cycle more. I'm not claiming that audax will do this for the whole population but it is one small cog in a much larger, multi-approach, solution.

ATEOTD I'd much rather have a load of people out on a Sunday morning doing audaxes on ebikes than out in their cars polluting, congesting, etc.

But I still think that ebikes, whilst welcomed, should be used under a different audax classification to those who ride under their own steam.

[mumbojumbo]

You can't see how they can get any sort of achievement...

I suggest that's a problem with your imagination and/or empathy than it is with e-bikes.

You are right.I cannot imagine entering an Audax with loads of other cyclists,and I cannot imagine being cheeky enough to enter an audax with an e-bike.Might as well turn up with a 250cc motorbike

[meic]

ATEOTD I'd much rather have a load of people out on a Sunday morning doing audaxes on ebikes than out in their cars polluting, congesting, etc.

By far the largest part of my solo car use, when into Audaxes, was driving my bike to attend Audax events.