Trains...why?

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Oldjohnw
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby Oldjohnw » 29 Jan 2020, 1:30pm

Confirmed that Northern Rail to revert to public ownership on March.

Someone is not learning the lessons.
John

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RickH
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby RickH » 29 Jan 2020, 3:06pm

Oldjohnw wrote:Confirmed that Northern Rail to revert to public ownership on March.

Someone is not learning the lessons.

Who isn't learning lessons?

I doubt it will make much difference.

Where the new trains are in service things are improving. I regularly get the Chester-Leeds train to Warrington & with the new train it is regularly 10 minutes early into WBQ. But the arrival of the new sets were delayed (which I don't think was in Northern's hands) & drivers have to be trained on the trains on the actual routes (which has to be fitted into the crowded schedule). Before that electrification of the Manchester to Preston line through Bolton was delayed by 2 years because of unforseen (& probably unforeseeable) circumstances.

The government will probably claim credit for their decisive action but I think it will largely be improvements that are already in progress.

Ironic though that the Tories poo-pooed the Labour "fantasy manifesto", which included taking railways back into public ownership, & one of the fist big things they do domestically is act to take part of the railway back into public ownership.

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mjr
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby mjr » 29 Jan 2020, 3:58pm

It's not public ownership as we know it, is it? Cameron killed Directly Operated Railways Ltd (including East Coast), so now failed franchises get sold as a management contract to consortia like LNER.
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brynpoeth
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby brynpoeth » 29 Jan 2020, 5:25pm

Rick H:
10 minutes early, is that a thing, is it allowed?
..
Years ago the WCML trains non-stop from Preston or Crewe could legitimately arrive ten minutes or more too early at Euston, if the recovery time was not needed :wink:
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Oldjohnw
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby Oldjohnw » 12 Feb 2020, 8:05am

I'm a great supporter of rail travel. But £100bn+ on one relatively short route?

At least some busses and cycle lanes.

Not much in my lifetime though, I guess.
John

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Re: Trains...why?

Postby kwackers » 12 Feb 2020, 8:47am

Oldjohnw wrote:Confirmed that Northern Rail to revert to public ownership on March.

Someone is not learning the lessons.

I'm all for public ownership of railways or at least a private system that works but simply dumping stuff at short notice is frankly stupid.
As crap as NR are (although they've been a lot better recently) I find it hard to believe you can with a couple of months notice simply shift ownership without issues.

Plus, I believe NR has 5 years left on its contract.
If so it remains to be seen whether it can be legally removed. I'll bet NR have a room full of lawyers going over the contract with a fine tooth comb so we could have a not insubstantial amount of compensation to pay out. If that's the case I bet they're rubbing their hands with glee.

Oldjohnw
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby Oldjohnw » 12 Feb 2020, 9:32am

I very much doubt that HMG dumped on NR for altruism. And joined up thinking in transport terms is not a factor. I have no doubt NR's lawyers will be doing just as you say, as did Virgin's a year or two ago.

So one week we have Johnson going on the world stage announcing how brilliant the climate conference will be and how Britain leads the world. Next week you have HS2 and all the destruction that will bring to knock 20 minutes of one particular journey. And the previous week we have a SofS overuling planning inspectors to permit Europe's largest gas power station.
John

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mjr
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby mjr » 12 Feb 2020, 10:04am

Oldjohnw wrote:Next week you have HS2 and all the destruction that will bring to knock 20 minutes of one particular journey.

As discussed over in the HS2 topic viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47854&start=495#p1436844 it's about capacity more than speed. Move through expresses to their own line (which is partly a reopening of the GCML) and you treble potential capacity by building a third of the line, enabling more bike spaces too. Nevertheless, it's a lower benefit-cost ratio than cycleways, so it's stupid to spend over £100bn on the worse investment and £1bn on the better. This government is scattergun, not at all joined up.
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merseymouth
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby merseymouth » 12 Feb 2020, 11:18am

Morning all, The HS2 Project is definitely a London specific affair, that has little to do with addressing the North/South imbalance. The fact that after leaving the Euston Terminal it will crawl out to connect with Crossrail1, that shortens the route length that can actually be called "High Speed"!
All it will achieve is to enlarge the commuter range for the London mob.
For me I'd rather upgrade HS1, finish the trans-pennine electrification process, sot out the drainage issues that currently plague both the East & West Coast main-lines, address the issue of trees falling on the lines nationwide, that list would greatly improve the system as a whole, after all how many people actually think London & Parliament are worth their cost? Not me. IGICB MM

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mjr
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby mjr » 12 Feb 2020, 12:28pm

merseymouth wrote:Morning all, The HS2 Project is definitely a London specific affair, that has little to do with addressing the North/South imbalance. The fact that after leaving the Euston Terminal it will crawl out to connect with Crossrail1, that shortens the route length that can actually be called "High Speed"!

5 minutes to do what currently takes 15 (to the nearest direct station) seems fairly fast to me, if not technically high speed rail. Faster than I've seen anyone crawl!

For me I'd rather upgrade HS1, finish the trans-pennine electrification process, sot out the drainage issues that currently plague both the East & West Coast main-lines, address the issue of trees falling on the lines nationwide, that list would greatly improve the system as a whole, after all how many people actually think London & Parliament are worth their cost? Not me. IGICB MM

Transpennine electrics yes, but HS2 phase 2 could deliver that if the top of the Y is linked. Upgrade HS1 how and why? What drainage issues? And do we really want a bonfire of all trees within sight of the railways?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Oldjohnw
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby Oldjohnw » 12 Feb 2020, 12:42pm

But £100bn+?
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mjr
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby mjr » 12 Feb 2020, 12:49pm

Oldjohnw wrote:But £100bn+?

If the govt demands railway builders take on 30 years liability cover, it adds massively to the cost. Road builders aren't normally asked to cover that.

We should spend more on it! Another £300m to put the cycleway back into the project and add more links to it!
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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merseymouth
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby merseymouth » 12 Feb 2020, 5:27pm

Hi MJR, "What drainage issues?", wake up mate!
The moment we get more than average rainfall the lines in many parts of the country get a bath! Not a rare occurrence, happens quite often in my travel sphere.
And if you know your railway in depth you would recall the south coast railway that ran into the sea, elevated rolling stock, traces still exist. MM

merseymouth
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby merseymouth » 17 Feb 2020, 11:48am

Morning all, So the Transport Secretary has poked fun at the Chinese offer to build HS2 Quicker & Cheaper? He'd rather trust the the rogues who are currently turning 21st Century Rail Provision into a joke!
He says he wants to have British Designed & Built Railways???????
The fact that successive governments here have effectively killed off our own rail rolling stock provision, going the route of foreign contract preference!
Virtually all of our current stock comes from very far away, and what little stuff that is made here has to go overseas for the proving process? We do not have the necessary provision.
So for home industry reality he's in fairy dust land! Nelson will get his eye back sooner :lol: :lol: :lol: . MM