Trains...why?

[Oldjohnw]

Confirmed that Northern Rail to revert to public ownership on March.

Someone is not learning the lessons.

[RickH]

Confirmed that Northern Rail to revert to public ownership on March.

Someone is not learning the lessons.

Who isn't learning lessons?

I doubt it will make much difference.

Where the new trains are in service things are improving. I regularly get the Chester-Leeds train to Warrington & with the new train it is regularly 10 minutes early into WBQ. But the arrival of the new sets were delayed (which I don't think was in Northern's hands) & drivers have to be trained on the trains on the actual routes (which has to be fitted into the crowded schedule). Before that electrification of the Manchester to Preston line through Bolton was delayed by 2 years because of unforseen (& probably unforeseeable) circumstances.

The government will probably claim credit for their decisive action but I think it will largely be improvements that are already in progress.

Ironic though that the Tories poo-pooed the Labour "fantasy manifesto", which included taking railways back into public ownership, & one of the fist big things they do domestically is act to take part of the railway back into public ownership.

[mjr]

It's not public ownership as we know it, is it? Cameron killed Directly Operated Railways Ltd (including East Coast), so now failed franchises get sold as a management contract to consortia like LNER.

[Cyril Haearn]

Rick H:
10 minutes early, is that a thing, is it allowed?
..
Years ago the WCML trains non-stop from Preston or Crewe could legitimately arrive ten minutes or more too early at Euston, if the recovery time was not needed

[Oldjohnw]

I'm a great supporter of rail travel. But £100bn+ on one relatively short route?

At least some busses and cycle lanes.

Not much in my lifetime though, I guess.

[kwackers]

Confirmed that Northern Rail to revert to public ownership on March.

Someone is not learning the lessons.

I'm all for public ownership of railways or at least a private system that works but simply dumping stuff at short notice is frankly stupid.
As crap as NR are (although they've been a lot better recently) I find it hard to believe you can with a couple of months notice simply shift ownership without issues.

Plus, I believe NR has 5 years left on its contract.
If so it remains to be seen whether it can be legally removed. I'll bet NR have a room full of lawyers going over the contract with a fine tooth comb so we could have a not insubstantial amount of compensation to pay out. If that's the case I bet they're rubbing their hands with glee.

[Oldjohnw]

I very much doubt that HMG dumped on NR for altruism. And joined up thinking in transport terms is not a factor. I have no doubt NR's lawyers will be doing just as you say, as did Virgin's a year or two ago.

So one week we have Johnson going on the world stage announcing how brilliant the climate conference will be and how Britain leads the world. Next week you have HS2 and all the destruction that will bring to knock 20 minutes of one particular journey. And the previous week we have a SofS overuling planning inspectors to permit Europe's largest gas power station.

[mjr]

Next week you have HS2 and all the destruction that will bring to knock 20 minutes of one particular journey.

As discussed over in the HS2 topic viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47854&start=495#p1436844 it's about capacity more than speed. Move through expresses to their own line (which is partly a reopening of the GCML) and you treble potential capacity by building a third of the line, enabling more bike spaces too. Nevertheless, it's a lower benefit-cost ratio than cycleways, so it's stupid to spend over £100bn on the worse investment and £1bn on the better. This government is scattergun, not at all joined up.

[Cyril Haearn]

The Watercress Line just reopened to Alton
It was closed a while so access could be made to hundreds of new homes
Schools Class 4-4-0 'Cheltenham' is in service over 'The Alps'

[Cyril Haearn]

Heritage railways are closed for the duration and have financial problems, they are seeking donations
'Without financial help the Llangollen Railway may never reopen', bleated a spokesperson
..
But: are there too many heritage railways?

[philvantwo]

Nearest one to here is the Severn Valley Railway at Bridgnorth, we last went on it in 2018, £42 for 2 adults and then they wanted another £3 for Flynn the Springer spaniel!
Prices this year are now £46 for 2 adults and they're selling shares again to raise funds, £1,200 and you get a silver medallion that offers unlimited travel for 4 people for life, but what happens if they don't reopen?

[Cyril Haearn]

Trouble is, running steam trains and maintaining the track cost an awful lot
Trouble is, I think, there are too many old railways, thanks to Mr Woodham

After This Madness (CV) there might be fewer, just as there may be fewer nail parlours, hairdressers, restaurants..

[philvantwo]

I can't see why its costing much if the trains aren't running, they own all the buildings, the track and most of the staff are volunteers. Sorry to say but whenever I've been on it there seems to be an 'us and them' atmosphere between the train staff and the passengers. It's not a cheap day out either, £46 for 2 adults and £3 for a dog plus if you get off in Bewdley and have a few in The Rat (Real ale tavern) it's a dear day out!!
I'd rather have a drive to Barmouth for the day.

[Cyril Haearn]

Trains still run to Abermaw/Barmouth, quite cheap too

[philvantwo]

Nearest station to us is Codsall and its £47 return on a Saturday to Barmouth, the Mrs and me usually set off about 5am, have a steady ride to Barmouth and spend the afternoon on the beach then get the 1710 train back. £25 for a single. Doubt if it'll happen this year, nor our annual walk up cadair Idris, would have been our 38th time up there together!