Trains...why?

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paddler
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby paddler » 17 Oct 2018, 2:54pm

reohn2 wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Just checked the prices and journey times.
From Crewe to NEC return cost standard ticket £57 that's £114 for myself and Mrs R2,journey time is 1hr 15mins one way and 1hr 45mins the other.
It should be a lot less than an hour in the car,and even with all running costs of the car won't cost anywhere near £114.

Might be worth checking earlier or later services or other operators, there are plenty of trains on that route, do you get senior discount?

Advance booking can be very cheap and many journeys can be planned

Yes we would qualify for senior disc' but See my EDIT.

BTW this is my point hilighted up threadbare there shouldn't be different companies charging differing rates,there should be a standard rate per mile with a slight premium for peak times,that way everyone knows the cost.



Quite agree.

Dave

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100%JR
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby 100%JR » 17 Oct 2018, 3:23pm

One other point I didn't mention.
On the Sheffield to Manchester train the nice young lady guard told another passenger(who wanted to purchase a ticket) that technically as he had boarded without a ticket after passing all the working ticket machines she could charge him the full Sheffield to Manchester fare regardless of where he was getting off as it's an offence to board without a ticket?
Sounded a bit strange?She didn't charge him full price but felt she needed to advise him as other Guards might.If this is so why do Guards have ticket machines and card-readers?

brynpoeth
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby brynpoeth » 17 Oct 2018, 3:27pm

Because the machines might be faulty or full of cash, no space for more :?

It is more efficient if people buy tickets before joining the train, imagine if the conductor had to sell hundreds of tickets
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brynpoeth
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby brynpoeth » 17 Oct 2018, 3:33pm

Because a train can carry hundreds of people and needs no parking space

Much better than hundreds more vehicles going in to Waterloo or Picadilly
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100%JR
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby 100%JR » 17 Oct 2018, 3:39pm

brynpoeth wrote:Because the machines might be faulty or full of cash, no space for more :?
It is more efficient if people buy tickets before joining the train, imagine if the conductor had to sell hundreds of tickets

Good point but is it actually an offence to board without a ticket as she suggested?
There was another point I should have mentioned and actually a positive.As we caught the Train out and walked back we had the pleasure of calling in three decent pubs en-route and could actually have a Pint in all three :mrgreen:

brynpoeth
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby brynpoeth » 17 Oct 2018, 3:43pm

100%JR wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:Because the machines might be faulty or full of cash, no space for more :?
It is more efficient if people buy tickets before joining the train, imagine if the conductor had to sell hundreds of tickets

Good point but is it actually an offence to board without a ticket as she suggested?
There was another point I should have mentioned and actually a positive.As we caught the Train out and walked back we had the pleasure of calling in three decent pubs en-route and could actually have a Pint in all three :mrgreen:

Travelling without a ticket might be fraud or theft
One might have to convince her and prove (how?) that the machine was faulty
..
You can start planning your next train-pub trip now
The Watercress Line runs RATs, real ale trains, for the likes of you :wink:
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kwackers
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby kwackers » 17 Oct 2018, 3:52pm

brynpoeth wrote:Because the machines might be faulty or full of cash, no space for more :?

It is more efficient if people buy tickets before joining the train, imagine if the conductor had to sell hundreds of tickets

I used to be able to buy a ticket online on my phone.
I'd get on the train and show the conductor the e-ticket on my phone and at the other end the QR code would let me through the barriers.
Easy peasy.

Northern have now abolished that ticket so you pretty much have to use the machine at the station - even if you buy the ticket online you still have to pick it up at the machine!
If you don't then you have no ticket and its slower too since you have to enter a unique number and then still insert your credit card.

So you have to get to the station 10 mins early to allow for all this (and in case there's a queue) only to discover that the machine is (frequently, but temporarily) broken - usually getting as far as asking for your card before deciding it's got no internet connection and usually just at the point the train appears...

You can bizarrely get a "promise to pay" ticket which simply says you'll pay the guard or the person at the other end. If you get the right train then the train pulls into barrier-less platforms (in Liverpool at least) so you can just chuck it in the bin thus avoiding paying whilst legally travelling without a ticket.

Shambles.

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mjr
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby mjr » 17 Oct 2018, 3:53pm

100%JR wrote:One other point I didn't mention.
On the Sheffield to Manchester train the nice young lady guard told another passenger(who wanted to purchase a ticket) that technically as he had boarded without a ticket after passing all the working ticket machines she could charge him the full Sheffield to Manchester fare regardless of where he was getting off as it's an offence to board without a ticket?

And if he really was trying to fare-dodge (quite likely if he boarded in Sheffield, where there would surely have been machines if not staffed counters), that's probably being kind, according to http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_far ... 87936.aspx - "The penalty is £20.00 or TWICE the full single fare from the station where a passenger joins a train to either the next station at which the train stops, or the station they leave the train, whichever is the greater. If the passenger wants to travel beyond the next station, they must also pay the relevant fare from that station to their final destination."

It's a requirement to buy a ticket, but I think it's only an offence under The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018 if you end your journey without buying one or refuse to do so, even if the only one offered (because they don't believe you about a broken ticket machine) is a penalty fare.
100%JR wrote:Sounded a bit strange?She didn't charge him full price but felt she needed to advise him as other Guards might.If this is so why do Guards have ticket machines and card-readers?

For the exceptions, like when the ticket machine at Back of Beyond Halt isn't accepting credit cards.
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mjr
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby mjr » 17 Oct 2018, 3:57pm

brynpoeth wrote:Travelling without a ticket might be fraud or theft

I'm pretty sure it's its own offence.
brynpoeth wrote:One might have to convince her and prove (how?) that the machine was faulty

As well as guards often being able to see the off/orange/red status lights on the machines (usually near the top on the sides, so they're visible from most trains), I think the machines now phone home often (they have connectivity for card processing) and the guards and fares window staff can check status updates. They always seem to have known already when I let them know when a machine was broken again.
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brynpoeth
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby brynpoeth » 17 Oct 2018, 4:01pm

Easier just to get an all-line rover, if that is still available :wink:

I had one for a month in 2014, €309, valid for all trains in Germany 24/7, including ICEs, no need to book or reserve, just shut ones eyes (metaphorically) and hop on the next train
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby kwackers » 17 Oct 2018, 4:04pm

mjr wrote:They always seem to have known already when I let them know when a machine was broken again.

I think you credit them with too much.
I get the impression they simply go by appearance or you're not the first to say it.
Ultimately they don't want hassle and someones appearance is often enough to tell if they're trying to play the system.

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mjr
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby mjr » 17 Oct 2018, 4:11pm

kwackers wrote:
mjr wrote:They always seem to have known already when I let them know when a machine was broken again.

I think you credit them with too much.
I get the impression they simply go by appearance or you're not the first to say it.
Ultimately they don't want hassle and someones appearance is often enough to tell if they're trying to play the system.

Maybe. I'll try to remember to ask one of the railway or recently-ex-railway members of the local bike group when I see them next. I think quite a few of the actual railway workers like bikes almost as much as trains... maybe except when they're working trains without enough bike spaces for a reasonable level of demand, though I suspect it's not us they're really upset with!
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brynpoeth
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby brynpoeth » 17 Oct 2018, 4:17pm

I am one, used to work on a railway, the TRC has just occurred to me, Tragedy of Rail Cycling, old railway formations are so good for cycling but better for new railways

The solution to cycles by train is big open multipurpose areas with windows high enough to see out of when standing
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby PH » 17 Oct 2018, 5:09pm

100%JR wrote:Sounded a bit strange?She didn't charge him full price but felt she needed to advise him as other Guards might.If this is so why do Guards have ticket machines and card-readers?

I'm pretty sure not all stations along that line have anywhere to buy a ticket, Edale for example. There's also the possibility of needing a ticket because you've inadvertently boarded a train that your ticket isn't valid for, or a change of plan and you wish to extend your journey... there's probably other scenarios as well.

reohn2
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby reohn2 » 17 Oct 2018, 5:23pm

100%JR wrote:.......There was another point I should have mentioned and actually a positive.As we caught the Train out and walked back we had the pleasure of calling in three decent pubs en-route and could actually have a Pint in all three :mrgreen:

And which would also numb the effects of a UK train journey :wink: :D
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