Trains...why?

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mjr
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby mjr » 17 Oct 2018, 5:29pm

reohn2 wrote:
100%JR wrote:.......There was another point I should have mentioned and actually a positive.As we caught the Train out and walked back we had the pleasure of calling in three decent pubs en-route and could actually have a Pint in all three :mrgreen:

And which would also numb the effects of a UK train journey :wink: :D

The best trains even serve Butcombe beer during the journey ;)
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby 100%JR » 17 Oct 2018, 5:30pm

mjr wrote:And if he really was trying to fare-dodge (quite likely if he boarded in Sheffield, where there would surely have been machines if not staffed counters)

I don't think the old lad was trying to fare dodge as he had his wallet out ready before the guard started checking tickets.We were in the front carriage of three and she was there when we got on.Maybe he,like me, hadn't been on a train for 15 years and had no idea you're supposed to buy a ticket before boarding?Maybe he was late getting there?Maybe he didn't like ticket machines?
There were ticket counters but only two windows were open and there was a large queue.No queue at all at the ticket machines though :?:

reohn2 wrote:
100%JR wrote:.......There was another point I should have mentioned and actually a positive.As we caught the Train out and walked back we had the pleasure of calling in three decent pubs en-route and could actually have a Pint in all three :mrgreen:

And which would also numb the effects of a UK train journey :wink: :D

Almost!
Last edited by 100%JR on 17 Oct 2018, 5:33pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby reohn2 » 17 Oct 2018, 5:31pm

mjr wrote:The best trains even serve Butcombe beer during the journey ;)

They'll not be UK trains then :mrgreen:
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby PH » 17 Oct 2018, 5:33pm

reohn2 wrote:BTW this is my point hilighted up threadbare there shouldn't be different companies charging differing rates,there should be a standard rate per mile with a slight premium for peak times,that way everyone knows the cost.

If that ever happened there'd be winners and losers and those of us who've spent the last couple of decades learning how to get the best from it would be the losers. I'm not saying it's right, but it would probably result in me using the train less.
For example - it's hard to find an off peak Derby-Manchester day return for under £30, even booked in advance and choosing specific trains, it's a trip I make a few times a year. But if you know you can travel through Sheffield to the last station in Derbyshire (New Mills) on a £13 Derbyshire Wayfarer ticket and an advance New Mills - Manchester day return is about a fiver you can save yourself at least a tenner, use any train (As long as it actually stops in New Mills) and also use the ticket on the bus to and from Derby station (Plus any other travel you want to do that day) You won't be offered that at the ticket office, probably because they don't know.
There's also all the people being scammed for peak travel when only a part of their journey is in peak times - if I need to travel to London leaving before 9am, I'll only buy a ticket to the first station with a departure after peak, and an off peak ticket for the rest of the journey. Again they don't offer that at the ticket office...
Then there's Megabus flogging of surplus train tickets...
And split ticketing which is crazy...
And looking for savings by leaving gaps in the journey (Three of us saved £45 each by having a break in Glasgow for an hour) ...

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Re: Trains...why?

Postby reohn2 » 17 Oct 2018, 5:45pm

PH wrote:
reohn2 wrote:BTW this is my point hilighted up threadbare there shouldn't be different companies charging differing rates,there should be a standard rate per mile with a slight premium for peak times,that way everyone knows the cost.

If that ever happened there'd be winners and losers and those of us who've spent the last couple of decades learning how to get the best from it would be the losers. I'm not saying it's right, but it would probably result in me using the train less.
For example - it's hard to find an off peak Derby-Manchester day return for under £30, even booked in advance and choosing specific trains, it's a trip I make a few times a year. But if you know you can travel through Sheffield to the last station in Derbyshire (New Mills) on a £13 Derbyshire Wayfarer ticket and an advance New Mills - Manchester day return is about a fiver you can save yourself at least a tenner, use any train (As long as it actually stops in New Mills) and also use the ticket on the bus to and from Derby station (Plus any other travel you want to do that day) You won't be offered that at the ticket office, probably because they don't know.
There's also all the people being scammed for peak travel when only a part of their journey is in peak times - if I need to travel to London leaving before 9am, I'll only buy a ticket to the first station with a departure after peak, and an off peak ticket for the rest of the journey. Again they don't offer that at the ticket office...
Then there's Megabus flogging of surplus train tickets...
And split ticketing which is crazy...
And looking for savings by leaving gaps in the journey (Three of us saved £45 each by having a break in Glasgow for an hour) ...


Ah! A man who knows the hoops system,now let's just say everything was fair and square and the railways were there to serve everyone who used them,or as near as makes no difference.
I'll bet currently there's more people paying through the nose to travel by train than not.
I applaud people who buck the system legally and know their way around it but such intracacies aren't known to everyone.
The real question is,should there even be a system to buck,or should travelling by train,or any other form of public transport FTM,be a straight forward no nonsense,no hassle way to travel,which is attractive and convenient to anyone who uses it?
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby PH » 17 Oct 2018, 5:53pm

reohn2 wrote:I'll bet currently there's more people paying through the nose to travel by train than not.

I'm not questioning that things should be clear and transparent, just that not everyone would benefit from it. It is ridiculous that I can sit next to someone on the train having paid a third of the price they have for the same journey.

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Re: Trains...why?

Postby Cyril Haearn » 17 Oct 2018, 6:04pm

reohn2 wrote:
100%JR wrote:.......There was another point I should have mentioned and actually a positive.As we caught the Train out and walked back we had the pleasure of calling in three decent pubs en-route and could actually have a Pint in all three :mrgreen:

And which would also numb the effects of a UK train journey :wink: :D

Is drinking on trains allowed? On some trains in Germany (Metronom) it is expressly forbidden, not sure why :?
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby Cyril Haearn » 17 Oct 2018, 6:07pm

I started a thread a while ago about team-building trips
I really do not want to spend leisure time with colleagues, I spend far to too much time with them at work :(

Why did you make the trip, are things different in Yorkshire? :wink:
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby mjr » 17 Oct 2018, 6:18pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:Is drinking on trains allowed? On some trains in Germany (Metronom) it is expressly forbidden, not sure why :?

Generally yes, although it's fairly expensive (around £4 a pint) and getting too drunk is a bad idea and there are blanket bans on some UK services to/from football matches and other events notorious for drunkenness. This is another reason why trains are often better than driving... although sometimes it can lead to a reason why one is worse because some Brits seem unable to drink only one.

It's clearly not forbidden on all trains in Germany because I enjoyed wheat beers on the German ICE (part of the time sat behind the driver with a clear view out the windscreen!) and Austrian RailJet earlier this year. Cheers! :-)
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby Cyril Haearn » 17 Oct 2018, 6:22pm

mjr wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:Is drinking on trains allowed? On some trains in Germany (Metronom) it is expressly forbidden, not sure why :?

Generally yes, although it's fairly expensive (around £4 a pint) and getting too drunk is a bad idea and there are blanket bans on some UK services to/from football matches and other events notorious for drunkenness. This is another reason why trains are often better than driving... although sometimes it can lead to a reason why one is worse because some Brits seem unable to drink only one.

It's clearly not forbidden on all trains in Germany because I enjoyed wheat beers on the German ICE (part of the time sat behind the driver with a clear view out the windscreen!) and Austrian RailJet earlier this year. Cheers! :-)

There was a fire on an ice near Dierdorf last week, no-one was hurt but several carriages were pulverised, could have been an electrical defect, waiting to hear soon
The ice1 trains still have compartments, +1!
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby mjr » 17 Oct 2018, 6:34pm

100%JR wrote:Maybe he,like me, hadn't been on a train for 15 years and had no idea you're supposed to buy a ticket before boarding?Maybe he was late getting there?Maybe he didn't like ticket machines?
There were ticket counters but only two windows were open and there was a large queue.No queue at all at the ticket machines though :?:

15 years? Buying before boarding has been normal practice on trains for far longer than that, hasn't it?

Plus now there are ugly yellow and black warning posters reminding you to buy a ticket before boarding at every station where penalty fares apply.

Late getting there is debatable, but a silly queue at the windows is a fair (ha!) reason IMO, although some will point out you can buy ahead. A long queue at the windows and none at the machines suggests that maybe the machines weren't working properly but I don't think we can check for ourselves.
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby Cyril Haearn » 17 Oct 2018, 6:36pm

An advert quoted excuses for ticketlessness
- what, is there a charge for travelling by train?
- my dog just ate my ticket!
..
&c &c
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby reohn2 » 17 Oct 2018, 6:41pm

PH wrote:
reohn2 wrote:I'll bet currently there's more people paying through the nose to travel by train than not.

I'm not questioning that things should be clear and transparent, just that not everyone would benefit from it. It is ridiculous that I can sit next to someone on the train having paid a third of the price they have for the same journey.

I quite agree.
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby 100%JR » 18 Oct 2018, 12:27am

mjr wrote:15 years? Buying before boarding has been normal practice on trains for far longer than that, hasn't it?

Might well have.15 years(2003) was the last time I used a train.Before that I was still at school(took my bike to the Yorkshire Dales as my wouldn't fit in my dads car)I left school on 1984.Perhaps I should have been clearer.Before yesterday I had only used a train once(15 years ago) since 1982/83.i seem to recall buying tickets on the train as you do on a bus back then.
i didn't see any signs at neither Chapeltown,Sheffield or Grindleford stating you have to buy before you board but I wasn't particularly taking much notice of anything other the train times.
I suppose if you're a regular train traveller you'd know this but if like me you've only used trains once in the past 35 years you wouldn't?
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Re: Trains...why?

Postby 661-Pete » 18 Oct 2018, 9:15am

mjr wrote:15 years? Buying before boarding has been normal practice on trains for far longer than that, hasn't it?
I probably begin a lot of posts on here with the words "When I was a kid (i.e. 1950s)"...

But it's perfectly true - I clearly recall that even in my primary-school years (yes it was the 1950s) I was regularly sent off on train journeys on my own, or with my younger sister. Not long distances - a 20-mile round trip. Can you imagine any kids being allowed to do that nowadays?

I clearly remember asking at the ticket-office for "two halves day-return...." I remember the fare being 1/9d each. The man in the ticket-office got to know us pretty well. He used to joke "haven't you learnt to play that violin yet??" That wasn't the reason for our journey but never mind!

Back to the present: I actually prefer the automatic machines nowadays (in fact I often have no choice seeing as our local ticket-office is often shut). On a noisy station concourse it's easy to be misheard by the booking clerk and get the wrong tickets. In the early days of auto machines they were very clumsy and awkward to use: the touch-screen just didn't respond properly. But the latest generation seems to have ironed out that problem. One feature I like: you can see at a glance the range of alternative fares for a journey, and make your choice. Try asking a harassed booking-clerk in the rush hour, about cheaper fares!
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