Electric cars

[661-Pete]

Toyota and Honda have been quietly getting on with developing efficient hybrids. The Japanese are literally decades ahead.

From a Which? report on the The Toyota Auris Hybrid (2013-), one of the more popular Japanese models:

PROS: High efficiency and low emissions, spacious front cabin, safe road behaviour
CONS: Noisy CVT, rear seats cramped, boot space restricted, inflexible cabin layout

OK there are 'pros' to balance the 'cons' - but I wouldn't call this being "literally decades ahead"...

Furthermore, I have read that hybrids do not score well on long motorway runs. Otherwise I would certainly be interested in one...

[Bonefishblues]

Furthermore, I have read that hybrids do not score well on long motorway runs. Otherwise I would certainly be interested in one...

Here's a thing. I ran a Prius for 80+K miles, primarily up and down the M40, with a few miles either end. I achieved a measured 55mpg, which for a car of that size I was very pleased with. I can't match it in my diesel S60 - that is 53mpg at absolute best, and 50mpg overall.

I then ran a Plug in Prius for 25K miles and did even (much) better - beyond that which a little bit of battery should have achieved.

You do need to learn how to drive them to achieve the best mpg though, just as any other car, but even for the most lead-footed they are impressive.

[geocycle]

We run a 1.0 litre ford c max. A very practical car with good driving position allowing you to see over dry stone walls and enough space to carry bikes etc. I’d love an electric version of a vehicle of this size. Does anyone know if there is such a thing available?

[Bonefishblues]

Volvo XC40 is coming - will be fiercely expensive though!

[661-Pete]

When did the Prius - the first on-the-road hybrid I believe - first make an appearance? Late 1990s/early 2000s wasn't it? I remember, way back then, in an effort to boost my 'environmental credentials', calling up a few garages to try and arrange a test drive.

Not one garage could oblige. They said Prius's were in short supply and none of them had a model available. And of course the cost was monumental (I was working back then, so I could afford a bit more - but still, I was uncertain whether my budget could run to a Prius...).

I gave up the idea. Of course, in those days, I still firmly believed in diesel. What a wonderful thing it is, this hindsight!

[kwackers]

Prius is incredibly well liked by taxi drivers, reliable at high mileages and cheap to run. They've pretty much replaced all the diesel taxi's you'd see around.
Not unusual for them to be kicking around with 200/300k on the clocks - so much for crap batteries...

Shame they're such a bland car.

Personally I'd already have a Twizy if it wasn't for the daft battery hire - plus I reckon it's overdue for a revamp which hopefully will give it more miles.

[reohn2]

Personally I'd like an electric car but it would need to fill my criteria:-
a)affordable to buy and run.
b)able to tow a 1400kg caravan efficiently for at least 150miles at motorway speeds without the worry of whether I can recharge it when I have to stop every bladder emptying.
c) have the interior flexibility of my current Cmax or preferably Smax where the rear seat all fold flat(Smax) or can be removed quickly and simply(Cmax)
d)would last 150,000miles on original batteries.
I strongly suspect that's not an option presently.

Alternatively keep our 9 year old Cmax 2ltr diesel with only 70k miles on the clock for the towing and load lugging which would be used occasionally totalling maybe 5k miles per annum with the rest of our 12k mile per annum motoring done in a small Micra/Aygo sized electric car.
I'm open to suggestions for the electric car(s)

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Not a new method but a good one to save is use less.
We do less than 4k a year total motoring.

[horizon]

At what price (do you mean when?) would you think it's worth changing to electric?.

When cars have been banned from town centres and the space currently given over to parking is released for socially and economically beneficial activities. The idea that an electric car solves any problem is manifestly absurd.

And shall I carry on?

When cars don't need motorways
When lithium doesn't need to be mined
When people don't need exercise
When pedestrians and cyclists don't exist
When cars are 100% recycled
When cars are made from 100% recycled materials
When people don't need cars to travel to work
When children are no longer forced to travel in a box

No electric car at any price is useful to humanity. It is therefore a strange route to go down.

[kwackers]

When cars have been banned from town centres and the space currently given over to parking is released for socially and economically beneficial activities. The idea that an electric car solves any problem is manifestly absurd.

And shall I carry on?

When cars don't need motorways
When lithium doesn't need to be mined
When people don't need exercise
When pedestrians and cyclists don't exist
When cars are 100% recycled
When cars are made from 100% recycled materials
When people don't need cars to travel to work
When children are no longer forced to travel in a box

No electric car at any price is useful to humanity. It is therefore a strange route to go down.

Why not apply that to bicycles?

They need resources, use energy, use materials that aren't 100% recyclable, occupy space that could be used by pedestrians, require special surfaces and worse they're often used for leisure rather than practical uses!
Just like cars - what problem does a bicycle solve?

[reohn2]

Hi,
Not a new method but a good one to save is use less.
We do less than 4k a year total motoring.

We could sit in the house twiddling our thumbs all day long,but as MrsR2 has a disability that limits her walking we go out in the car mostly,though we do take short rides on the pedelec converted tandem.
Of course we could spend all our time scouring the internet for cheap rail tickets or solve the problem completely and sign up for Dignitas

[peetee]

Electric vehicles or otherwise, it seems obvious to me that huge reductions in air pollution and improvements in health can be gained by cutting down on people's reliance on cars. It's just too easy and cheap (hear me out) to hop into your car. Your average car now has a performance potential far in excess of what is needed and this encourages many people to exploit this and burn more fuel. The fuel crisis of 10 or so years ago saw many service stations empty and shut and to me it was noticeable that a lot more people were easing off the throttle to eek out the tank. Give people a good enough reason and change can happen. The whole transport infrastructure is insanely complicated. On the outskirts of Southampton is Whiteley village, designed to be a self contained living/shopping/working environment. It's the biggest bottleneck for miles around with hundreds of cars arriving and departing at both ends of the day. Tens of thousands of people travel to another town to do a job that is done in their own town by someone else. I used to commute on the Isle of Wight ferry and every day i saw chippies, brickies and plasterers pass each other on the gangplank. For so many of these people spending £100 every week just to get to work has become so routine that it doesn't even occur to them that there is an option. And what about the physical toll? My brother spends 28 full days a year commuting to work. He drives, so add to that 28 days the additional rest he requires. How much richer would his life be if he worked within walking distance and every year he was given £1200 and told to take an extra month off?

[Mick F]

........... The Japanese are literally decades ahead.

We have a 2014 Yaris Hybrid, and it's wonderful. Positively the best car we've ever owned.
Not necessarily for the build quality - as it's fairly normal in that - but for the drive quality. Absolute pleasure and relaxing to drive.

Engine plus EV is 130bhp, which is brilliant for pulling away or overtaking. The whole 130bhp isn't continuously available because the system software protects the battery, but it is available for a ten seconds or so. Combine this with the constant velocity transmission, the power is instant and immediate at the press of the pedal. Far far far FAR better than an automatic gearbox.

If you're gentle, you can get 60mpg or even 70mpg. Keep the speed down on the motorway to about 60mph and it'll return 65mpg.

Feels small amount of pride on recommendation

It is just brilliantly resolved, isn't it

Thank you VERY VERY much.

This forum is brilliantly wonderfully fantastic.
Ask a question, and you get answers. You may not like the answers, or you may sort of accept them, or you may pay attention and take notice, and then agree.

[horizon]

When cars have been banned from town centres and the space currently given over to parking is released for socially and economically beneficial activities. The idea that an electric car solves any problem is manifestly absurd.

And shall I carry on?

When cars don't need motorways
When lithium doesn't need to be mined
When people don't need exercise
When pedestrians and cyclists don't exist
When cars are 100% recycled
When cars are made from 100% recycled materials
When people don't need cars to travel to work
When children are no longer forced to travel in a box

No electric car at any price is useful to humanity. It is therefore a strange route to go down.

Why not apply that to bicycles?

Because bicycles do solve some of the problems posed by cars, even the major ones. Why I posted the way I did is that one gets the impression that electric cars are seen as a panacea (I'm sorry if I've misinterpreted people's enthusiasm).

I do wonder if halving the use of conventional vehicles would be more beneficial than 100% electric at today's rates of usage.

[thirdcrank]

... Tens of thousands of people travel to another town to do a job that is done in their own town by someone else. ...

True but possibly an underestimate. I've posted on another thread that a couple of weeks ago, two chaps sub-contracting for an insurance company drove from Brum to my home in Leeds to fix my rainwater drains. IMO hybrids are a bit of a drop-in-the-ocean sort of solution. They just use less diesel/petrol but don't tackle any of the other things listed above.