EU referendum 3.0 -- with don't know option --

[dodger1]

Unusually, I sympathise with Mrs May, having to try to reconcile two polar opposites. Stay v Leave.
What about stay, but with a mandate to reform the EU to make it more accountable, less bureaucratic, less wasteful and less corrupt?
We've shown that there is a strong desire to do something about the EU, simply by the numbers.
If David Cameron had had the nous to offer a third option at the referendum there would have been a very different result.
I voted Stay, but I'm not a great fan of the EU as an institution. It's supposed to be about trade, but has been hijacked for political aims.
Let's go back to having an Economic Union and shelve the politics.

[mjr]

Unusually, I sympathise with Mrs May, having to try to reconcile two polar opposites. Stay v Leave.
What about stay, but with a mandate to reform the EU to make it more accountable, less bureaucratic, less wasteful and less corrupt?

The big problem with that is that the UK system is less accountable, more bureaucratic, wastes far more (we send Whitehall £15½bn a week, if we count it like Vote Leave did the EU) and is more corrupt (so much so that the auditor warns he can't even tell for sure how much it wastes because some departments aren't keeping proper records), so it would be like asking the foxes to mind the hen house.

The again, two years ago, we told the foxes to take our hens out of the house anyway, so maybe people would vote for it!

We've shown that there is a strong desire to do something about the EU, simply by the numbers.
If David Cameron had had the nous to offer a third option at the referendum there would have been a very different result.

Well, David Cameron tried to make "Remain" actually include the reform option, through his now-lapsed renegotiation package which would have taken effect if Remain won - but that seemed to get completely lost once the campaigns started.

I don't think it would have mattered if there had been three, five or ten options on the ballot paper unless Vote Leave had been prevented from repeating their £350m/NHS/Turkey lies over and over again. I don't think even Single Transferable Vote or Alternative Vote would have let any other option beat the fantasies that Vote Leave promised before the vote.

I voted Stay, but I'm not a great fan of the EU as an institution. It's supposed to be about trade, but has been hijacked for political aims.
Let's go back to having an Economic Union and shelve the politics.

Economics on that scale is always political, isn't it? Denying it would just leave the union's actions unaccountable, done by appartchik appointee ministers and officers with no elected members of a public parliament holding them to account. We're far better off having a structure that includes a parliament and executive IMO.

[djnotts]

" It's supposed to be about trade, but has been hijacked for political aims."

Trade and politics are and always have been directly or indirectly linked. In the case of the ECSC morphing into the EU, the political aim of the founding fathers was always that that modest start should avoid a re-run of two W European wars within 2 decades. What has the EU done for me? Alongside smaller benefits, neither I nor my children have had to fight and die on mainland Europe. But lead supporters of brexit want exactly that - awfully good for profits, ol' boy.

[Cyril Haearn]

Just changed my vote to *leave*, got a vision of an isolated UK trading less, using less resources, no new cars, +1

Dunno how it might affect me financially, no-one knows, rates go down and up, I should live a couple of decades yet

Just a shame no-one voted 'don't know'. Yet

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Is it possible to register Multiple users from the same connection with different emails.
So you could have several users living at the same address you want to vote, how could you tail They are different people they just pick different email addresses?

(Typed by voice)

[PDQ Mobile]

Just changed my vote to *leave*, got a vision of an isolated UK trading less, using less resources, no new cars, +1

Dunno how it might affect me financially, no-one knows, rates go down and up, I should live a couple of decades yet

Just a shame no-one voted 'don't know'. Yet

Sometimes I wonder about you Hot Bryn!

[Cyril Haearn]

There's no evidence of a mass change of heart from the populace on Brexit, however much it might be wished for.

It could be 54% by now and every year brings more young people in at one end and lets a few older people out at the other. But otherwise you are right - it hasn't changed much. I think if the polls now said 65 - 70%, a referendum would be a dead cert and we would be staying in. As it is, even I have to accept Brexit means Brexit.

Yes, middle-aged people get older and richer, they upgrade to wanting b****t. Maybe we should have been taught more about history, conflict, war, cooperation at school

Could be that PurgaTory lasts decades

[Cyril Haearn]

Still time to vote or even change your vote if you heard a good argument from the other side

The next question is, are we an abnormal sample?

[Ben@Forest]

Still time to vote or even change your vote if you heard a good argument from the other side

The next question is, are we an abnormal sample?

The answer is obviously yes. For a start you can't include 'didn't vote' or 'will not vote' in your poll but in reality many people won't. The turnout in the last vote was 72% but even if was 80% that's 9 million people who still won't proffer an opinion.

Of course this wouldn't affect an outcome as only votes cast count. But according to various polls the likely results now show a slight preference to Remain. Your poll is definitively in favour. It shows that the sample is not representative.

The sample isn't even of people on the CUK forum. It is of those who visit Tea Shop and are interested enough to vote. Not only that but l suspect your title will encourage those who want to stress their pro EU opinion to visit and vote.

I had to do statistics as part of my degreee. I strongly suspect you have strayed into the realm of confirmation bias.

[Cyril Haearn]

Confirmation bias
You are right, I should have thought more about the title and offered more choices
Don't know
Don't care
Abstain
..

I have kinda sorta changed, I was a re-moaner but I know I have no influence and I should not be affected by it much, might gain, might say I am a don't carer, This Madness muessen wir halt akzeptieren, we must just accept it
..
Why do you think my title might attract re-moaners? Could you suggest an alternative? Danke

[661-Pete]

It shows that the sample is not representative.

Has anyone claimed that it is?

I had to do statistics as part of my degreee. I strongly suspect you have strayed into the realm of confirmation bias.

So did I. Whether or not I learned how to "lie with statistics" - well that's for others to say...

[Oldjohnw]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other

[661-Pete]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/23/police-probe-far-right-yellow-vest-group-anna-soubry?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Does anyone need more evidence of the ugliness which has pervaded the brex**iteer fraternity?

[Ben@Forest]

It shows that the sample is not representative.

Has anyone claimed that it is?

The OP asked if the sample was abnormal. Look upthread.

[661-Pete]

It shows that the sample is not representative.

Has anyone claimed that it is?

The OP asked if the sample was abnormal. Look upthread.

No, it's nothing to do with 'normal' or 'abnormal'. Just that the sample size is too small to be statistically significant.

If one monkey - or even 50 monkeys - get strumming away at those keyboards, they're unlikely to produce anything significant. You need an Infinite Number of Monkeys to achieve that...

[I suppose someone will now pull me up for likening CUK forummers to monkeys. So be it... ]