Les 'gilets jaunes'

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Oldjohnw
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby Oldjohnw » 4 Jan 2019, 10:06am

I am certainly glad of progress and thankful that in many instances the UK had been at the forefront of introducing a more benign approach. The UK dismantled empire and invented Commonwealth which is very creditable.

I also recognise that much of what we did was 'of the time', rather in the way that 60 years ago people assumed the death penalty was the normal way to operate and that homosexuality was innately criminal.

What I suggest is that in condemning others we need some humility, given our own record.

And don't forget how this particular topic diversion began: it was someone writing about the Wermacht marching through Poland.
John

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roubaixtuesday
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 4 Jan 2019, 10:16am

The British were responsible for policies approaching genocide in Australia.


I think it's pretty much accepted now that the British did, indeed have a genocidal policy at least in parts of Australia.

The Tasmanian native population specifically was deliberately entirely wiped out.

In other areas, bounties were paid to kill natives.

See for instance http://www.utas.edu.au/news/2018/1/18/5 ... -genocide/

pwa
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby pwa » 4 Jan 2019, 11:05am

Oldjohnw wrote:I am certainly glad of progress and thankful that in many instances the UK had been at the forefront of introducing a more benign approach. The UK dismantled empire and invented Commonwealth which is very creditable.

I also recognise that much of what we did was 'of the time', rather in the way that 60 years ago people assumed the death penalty was the normal way to operate and that homosexuality was innately criminal.

What I suggest is that in condemning others we need some humility, given our own record.

And don't forget how this particular topic diversion began: it was someone writing about the Wermacht marching through Poland.

The simplest solution is to just look at countries and peoples as they are now, and not apply the word "we" to the Britain / UK of previous generations. I don't hold today's Germany responsible for the death camps and I don't feel any responsibility for the misdeeds of Empire.

pete75
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby pete75 » 4 Jan 2019, 11:17am

pwa wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:I am certainly glad of progress and thankful that in many instances the UK had been at the forefront of introducing a more benign approach. The UK dismantled empire and invented Commonwealth which is very creditable.

I also recognise that much of what we did was 'of the time', rather in the way that 60 years ago people assumed the death penalty was the normal way to operate and that homosexuality was innately criminal.

What I suggest is that in condemning others we need some humility, given our own record.

And don't forget how this particular topic diversion began: it was someone writing about the Wermacht marching through Poland.

The simplest solution is to just look at countries and peoples as they are now, and not apply the word "we" to the Britain / UK of previous generations. I don't hold today's Germany responsible for the death camps and I don't feel any responsibility for the misdeeds of Empire.


Quite right but it doesn't mean we should try and excuse the bad things Britain did in the past by saying other countries did the same and worse. Many of those things were considered acceptable at the time but that isn't really a defence if anything it makes them worse. What's done is done though and can't be undone.

reohn2
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby reohn2 » 4 Jan 2019, 11:19am

pwa wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:......... I don't hold today's Germany responsible for the death camps

Nor me thought some still do,among beliefs of superiority of the UK over other European nations :?

and I don't feel any responsibility for the misdeeds of Empire.

Neither do I,but I don't claim any moral high ground over other countries unlike some on the thread.
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pwa
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby pwa » 4 Jan 2019, 11:21am

pete75 wrote:
pwa wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:I am certainly glad of progress and thankful that in many instances the UK had been at the forefront of introducing a more benign approach. The UK dismantled empire and invented Commonwealth which is very creditable.

I also recognise that much of what we did was 'of the time', rather in the way that 60 years ago people assumed the death penalty was the normal way to operate and that homosexuality was innately criminal.

What I suggest is that in condemning others we need some humility, given our own record.

And don't forget how this particular topic diversion began: it was someone writing about the Wermacht marching through Poland.

The simplest solution is to just look at countries and peoples as they are now, and not apply the word "we" to the Britain / UK of previous generations. I don't hold today's Germany responsible for the death camps and I don't feel any responsibility for the misdeeds of Empire.


Quite right but it doesn't mean we should try and excuse the bad things Britain did in the past by saying other countries did the same and worse. Many of those things were considered acceptable at the time but that isn't really a defence if anything it makes them worse. What's done is done though and can't be undone.

Nothing to disagree with there. And I think we are getting better at facing up to past horrors. Which is why you and me know about some of the things our ancestors got up to.

Ben@Forest
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby Ben@Forest » 4 Jan 2019, 11:34am

pwa wrote:The simplest solution is to just look at countries and peoples as they are now, and not apply the word "we" to the Britain / UK of previous generations. I don't hold today's Germany responsible for the death camps and I don't feel any responsibility for the misdeeds of Empire.


+1. Just as l do not expect people 100 or 250 years hence to feel responsible for what is or isn't being done now.

merseymouth
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby merseymouth » 4 Jan 2019, 11:44am

Hello, How long must the current citizens of the UK have to spend on our knees shouting Mia Culpa?
Exploitation has been with us since man realized it could make profit at the expense of others, these days it's called Capitalism, unless it is in a communist country, where it is called control of assets. Of course in a fair few countries today barbarity in the name of tradition still rules, but all nations still maintain cordial relations with most of them. It is only when such despots get careless that we have to take the moral high ground - read Saudi Arabia for example, but all countries are guilty of such to a greater or lesser degree.
But very few citizens have any control over the excesses of the ruling group, even in so called democratic countries have secrets which they keep from the population.
But how do we improve such a situation? I know not! MM

Oldjohnw
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby Oldjohnw » 4 Jan 2019, 1:47pm

Nothing to disagree with there. And I think we are getting better at facing up to past horrors. Which is why you and me know about some of the things our ancestors got up to.


Agreed. My parents simply would not have believed that England could have done wrong.

Hello, How long must the current citizens of the UK have to spend on our knees shouting Mia Culpa?


Interesting, given that this started with you blaming the Germans of today.
John

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slowster
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby slowster » 4 Jan 2019, 2:20pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
Hello, How long must the current citizens of the UK have to spend on our knees shouting Mia Culpa?


Interesting, given that this started with you blaming the Germans of today.

Indeed. Arguing that current UK citizens are not responsible for the nation's past misdeeds, but taking the exact opposite view of modern Germany:

merseymouth wrote:One other point concerning the possibility of Germans joining the Gilets Jaunes protest. Can't see them in yellow, more likely it will be Wermacht Grey, coming in through other countries, possibly Poland & Belgium if the follow their usual pattern?
Not a cheap shot, merely a revisiting of old ground.

merseymouth wrote:Didn't Germany do enough damage when they bombed Dublin in 1941?

merseymouth wrote:Hello there, I do not want to have any part of an E.U. with a common armed service with Germany having a controlling hand!
My late Father & Grandfather had to help put them back in the box, I don't want any grand-children to have to go through such a process again?
Super Germany is never a good thing. MM

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661-Pete
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby 661-Pete » 11 Jan 2019, 11:57am

More antics by the Gilets Jaunes (allegedly) - it appears that 60% of France's speed cameras have been taken out....

I mean - sixty percent - what the [FFE] ?!!!

Yes I know there are some nutters ("Safespeed"?) in the UK who do likewise, and yes I recall passing a torched radar in France last year (with the gendarmes in force, in attendance probing around the thing...) But there must be thousands of these devices spread across France.

Idiots. Just shows up what these GJ's are all about - it's all "Moi! moi! moi!" and "Moi d'abord Jacques, à l'enfer les autres!*"

I just hope the authorities have managed to fix most of the radars before our next visit to France. They're there for a reason. And - as I think I mentioned on another thread - I've never been zapped. There's no reason to get zapped...

*[my attempt to render "I'm alright Jack" into French]
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

brynpoeth
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby brynpoeth » 11 Jan 2019, 12:14pm

<SNIP>
Quel bouleversement, j'aime les radars!
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Cours
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby Cours » 11 Jan 2019, 12:28pm

How quickly they forget. This was happening in cities all over England only 7 years ago, and if brexit goes into a cocked hat with food disappearing off the shelves and essential medicines dry up it could all too easily kick of again. We in England could show those foreign Jonnies a thing or two about rioting.
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661-Pete
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby 661-Pete » 14 Jan 2019, 2:03pm

I certainly remember Reeves Corner in Croydon (second piccy above). A very sad occasion. My Dad often used to take me round the shop when I was a kid, they used to auction a lot of cheap second-hand furniture and he'd buy stuff there.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

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661-Pete
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby 661-Pete » 14 Jan 2019, 2:06pm

Seems the English counterparts of the GJ's have scored a bit of an own-goal. :mrgreen:
Image
Good to know how many things they "stand for" (sic) .... :twisted:
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).