Les 'gilets jaunes'

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thirdcrank
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby thirdcrank » 23 Dec 2018, 4:31pm

I'm old enough to have been in Paris on a school trip in 1958 and having witnessed a violent demo as the Fourth Republic was on the way out. I also remember some pretty graphic reporting by Clare Hollingworth. I'm in no doubt that violent demonstrations have shaped French politics and may do so again.

I don't want to start another job for the mods but le rue is a herb.

mercalia
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby mercalia » 23 Dec 2018, 6:49pm


Cyril Haearn
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby Cyril Haearn » 24 Dec 2018, 4:13pm

Thinking of wearing Gilet Jaune regularly, to make people wonder whether I am a protestor or a securityperson or a policeperson or a cyclist, or more than one of the above :wink:

Scanned an article about the protests, it suggested the people from the banlieus (poorer immigrants and others) were not much involved, the protesters are mostly white, is that right?
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merseymouth
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby merseymouth » 24 Dec 2018, 5:38pm

Hello, there, One shouldn't relish the possibility of more rioting in France, nor of it spreading through the UK!
I have lived through both Moss Side & Toxteth Riots. Rent-A-Mob everywhere, egged on by the extremists.
When one has to stay awake all night to ensure that your home or business doesn't fall foul of the mob you start to understand why it is not good for any society.
Where does relishing end and incitement begin? MM

Canuk
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby Canuk » 24 Dec 2018, 6:54pm

merseymouth wrote:Hello, there, One shouldn't relish the possibility of more rioting in France, nor of it spreading through the UK!
I have lived through both Moss Side & Toxteth Riots. Rent-A-Mob everywhere, egged on by the extremists.
When one has to stay awake all night to ensure that your home or business doesn't fall foul of the mob you start to understand why it is not good for any society.
Where does relishing end and incitement begin? MM


When the government no longer represents the ideas and ideals of the people, then one is honour bound to protest. In the US one is encouraged (via the constitution) to bear arms to overthrow said oppression.

Would that it were like that in the uk. What chance democracy when Brexit is being managed by a shower of self interesed right wingers.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby Cyril Haearn » 24 Dec 2018, 7:35pm

Canuk wrote:
merseymouth wrote:Hello, there, One shouldn't relish the possibility of more rioting in France, nor of it spreading through the UK!
I have lived through both Moss Side & Toxteth Riots. Rent-A-Mob everywhere, egged on by the extremists.
When one has to stay awake all night to ensure that your home or business doesn't fall foul of the mob you start to understand why it is not good for any society.
Where does relishing end and incitement begin? MM


When the government no longer represents the ideas and ideals of the people
..

No longer? Until when did it represent the people?
What about Canada? The Guardian described Trudeau as the sorriest politrickian, he keeps apologising for things that happened centuries ago :?
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Cunobelin
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby Cunobelin » 25 Dec 2018, 9:02am

Canuk wrote:
merseymouth wrote:Hello, there, One shouldn't relish the possibility of more rioting in France, nor of it spreading through the UK!
I have lived through both Moss Side & Toxteth Riots. Rent-A-Mob everywhere, egged on by the extremists.
When one has to stay awake all night to ensure that your home or business doesn't fall foul of the mob you start to understand why it is not good for any society.
Where does relishing end and incitement begin? MM


When the government no longer represents the ideas and ideals of the people, then one is honour bound to protest. In the US one is encouraged (via the constitution) to bear arms to overthrow said oppression.

Would that it were like that in the uk. What chance democracy when Brexit is being managed by a shower of self interesed right wingers.



No Government has EVER represented the ideas and ideals of "the People", nor will it ever happen anywhere in the world

pwa
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby pwa » 25 Dec 2018, 9:07am

It is worth taking on board the reality that this is what happens if a government tries to impose higher motoring costs on a population that feels they haven't signed up to that.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby Cyril Haearn » 25 Dec 2018, 9:17am

What happens when lower motroning costs are imposed? (Severn bridges) :?

La guerre contra automobilisten?
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Eton Rifle
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby Eton Rifle » 25 Dec 2018, 9:24am

Canuk wrote:
merseymouth wrote:Hello, there, One shouldn't relish the possibility of more rioting in France, nor of it spreading through the UK!
I have lived through both Moss Side & Toxteth Riots. Rent-A-Mob everywhere, egged on by the extremists.
When one has to stay awake all night to ensure that your home or business doesn't fall foul of the mob you start to understand why it is not good for any society.
Where does relishing end and incitement begin? MM


When the government no longer represents the ideas and ideals of the people, then one is honour bound to protest. In the US one is encouraged (via the constitution) to bear arms to overthrow said oppression.

Would that it were like that in the uk
. What chance democracy when Brexit is being managed by a shower of self interesed right wingers.


The side effect of the second amendment is, of course, a bunch of idiots owning guns, with which they regularly slaughter innocent people on a large scale. UK firearms laws are unnecessarily repressive but I know which state of affairs I prefer.

thirdcrank
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby thirdcrank » 25 Dec 2018, 9:31am

... I know which state of affairs I prefer. ...


Me too.

pwa
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby pwa » 25 Dec 2018, 11:50am

Cyril Haearn wrote:What happens when lower motroning costs are imposed? (Severn bridges) :?

La guerre contra automobilisten?

The Welsh national discourse on what to do about the tolls on the bridges wasn't as one sided as you might expect. It was quite nuanced, with the drawbacks being given some attention. But when you look at it in perspective, would the people of London tolerate a toll booth the
at charges them to get to the rest of the UK? I think that is what swung it. If you live in Cardiff, Swansea and the other populous parts of South Wales the M4 is your primary connection to the outside world. The rest of the UK is not paying to get on the motorway network so why should we? That's the thinking.

You can think what you like about these things but if you don't carry the general public with you your ideas will be unpopular and unenforceable. That is hard reality.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby Cunobelin » 25 Dec 2018, 1:20pm

pwa wrote:It is worth taking on board the reality that this is what happens if a government tries to impose higher motoring costs on a population that feels they haven't signed up to that.



Ironic really that a "pro motoring" lobby burns cars?

Image

Image

pwa
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby pwa » 25 Dec 2018, 1:41pm

Cunobelin wrote:
pwa wrote:It is worth taking on board the reality that this is what happens if a government tries to impose higher motoring costs on a population that feels they haven't signed up to that.



Ironic really that a "pro motoring" lobby burns cars?

Image

Image

There is no excuse for rioting, whatever the cause of dissatisfaction.

Canuk
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby Canuk » 25 Dec 2018, 3:54pm

They're not really pro motoring. This protest started because they hiked the price of gas from 1.20 a litre to 1.50 in 6 months. If you live in rural France with no public transport, you're knackered. There's a view in France, (long held, even before '68) that the only way to get the attention of the administration in place is to demonstrate' dans les rues'. And if that's initially unsuccessful, they will build the barricades and protest more violently. They mainly cause damage to property, (in this case it was mainly posh, gas guzzling cars were attacked) and rarely other people. The violence perpetrated by the police in constrast was comprehensive and sustained.

The French protest like this because they know that by standing together against injustice and regimes they no longer have any trust in works. It gets results. Therefore in the French mindset violence on the streets, mostly targeted at property is 100% justified. They are creative about it too. In one town a local farmer sprayed what could only be described as 2000 litres of excrement through the open window of the town hall in protest at removal of the only bus service in the area.

Almost every single car you see on the roads has a gilet Jaune in the window as a sign of near total unanimity.
The latest story here is that the police are just as unhappy as everyone else. If they come out in sympathy in the new year with the protesters then Macron has only weeks left in power. If the British people would take to the streets in numbers like this, you would have your 2nd referendum by now. Sans probleme!
Last edited by Canuk on 25 Dec 2018, 5:16pm, edited 2 times in total.