Les 'gilets jaunes'

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pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby pete75 » 26 Dec 2018, 10:06am

brynpoeth wrote:
merseymouth wrote:Hello there, me thinks that if the Muppets in England follow the anarchy route trouble will occur?
After all the Skye bridge Toll was repealed, Scotland happier, The Severn Bridge Toll has now gone Wales smiling.
Should see plenty of yellow jackets in the Lancashire/Cheshire area any time soon, because one can't go over or under the Mersey without being charged!
For the next few months we have a potential problem here. Merseyrail are doing major works, so it will be a replacement bus/rail service, so bugger the cyclist if the ferries go west, which they often do?
Protest YES, Lawlessness NO. MM

A shuttle bus should be easy to organise


That's what they did when the Tyne foot and cycle tunnels were closed for refurbishment. Free and ran half hourly from 6 in the morning until 8 at night.

pete75
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby pete75 » 26 Dec 2018, 10:10am

Canuk wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Canuk wrote:
You seem to have a lot of friends who tell you things...

If she's middle class and state salaried I would imagine she would side with the state. It's also worthwhile pointing out that Paris is to the rest of France what London is to the UK - not entirely representative.


Yes. Many people have friends who tell them things.Maybe you don't have many friends but most people do. Nowhere in any country is entirely representative for example is Hartlepool any more representative of the UK than London, Leeds than Bristol, Portsmouth than Birmingham?


Quite bristly today aren't you? Comme toujours.. Are you seriously trying to say that London (or indeed any state Capital) is truly representative of a country? They are usually places where the power resides, and the money. Which is doubly true of Paris.

So how do you explain the mass protest of 300,000 on the streets in Paris.. If, as you say its a right wing, white thing? It would be helpful if you could answer the points put to you rather than reverting to type and cheap shots.


No. What I'm saying is that no place is truly representative of a country nor, for that matter, is any political or protest movement. I'm sure there's more than 300,000 white right wingers in Paris. a lot more than that voted for Le Pen.

What points?

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Cunobelin
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby Cunobelin » 26 Dec 2018, 10:35am

Canuk wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:
pwa wrote:It is worth taking on board the reality that this is what happens if a government tries to impose higher motoring costs on a population that feels they haven't signed up to that.



Ironic really that a "pro motoring" lobby burns cars?

Image

Image


I must admit posting stills like this is the most extreme form of 'editing', really you are being played (and playing into) the narrative of the mainstream media, who's interests are not the interests of the ordinary people of France.

What's missing from the narrative is the one sidedness of the 'debate, they're not showing you the extreme violence perpetrated by the state against legitimate protest. Namely water cannon, baton charges, CS gas attacks, stun grenades, punching, kicking, dragging by the hair. And these are only the actions you see in public, heaven knows what occurs behind closed doors when they get protesters back to the cells... If you rely on the mainstream media for the entirety of your news, you can only expect gross misrepresentation.

It's to be expected a state influenced media would react in this way, but a simple view of the actual footage on YouTube tells a very different story. Clearly the state are rattled. Which is as it should be, they've been taxing the living daylights out of the working class for a decade. A fuel tax of 20% inaugurated at the start of the year was the tipping point. The GJ will be back on the barricades this weekend, likely muted because of the festive period (still cherished in France), but like I said upthread if the much rumoured switch in the allegiance of the police occurs, the current administration has only weeks to live.



Noone is being led by anyone, nor any editing whatsoever.... there was a comment about it being a protest against high motoring costs, and the ironic burning if those very vehicles.

Any other interpretation about my opinions,, stance, feelings or sources of information is purely ill informed conjecture

brynpoeth
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby brynpoeth » 26 Dec 2018, 5:23pm

merseymouth wrote:Hi Brynpoeth, Should get my tricycle on the bus no problem then?
But folk in the area were told in 1934 that when the cost of building the Queensway Tunnel was paid back it would then be toll free.
Then they built the Kingsway Tunnel in the 70's, so tolls rolled on.
On the verge of the 2020's the tolls still look permanent.
Talk about "Divide and Conquer", in many areas of fiscal disparity the Scots & the Welsh make the English the cash cow. Tolls, Prescription Charges, Tuition Fees, talk about pick & mix.
And on the Br*x*t front, Peace in Our Time, Munich re-visited! Bah Humbug. MM

Liverpool could attach itself to Wales and benefit from legislation, the politrickians rarely go beyond Merthyr now, it would be a good counterweight
Liverpool did Wales a 'favour' in the days of Bessie Braddock, flooded Cwm Tryweryn, that provoked Plaid and Gwynfor Evans into action
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Canuk
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby Canuk » 26 Dec 2018, 5:31pm

The initial conflict was the result of a 20% fuel tax rise since January, (a veritable disaster in a country where 60% of the population live in rural areas with little or no access to public transport) a halt on increasing the national minimum wage and more indirect taxes on the elderly and the poor.

How anyone can pull 'right wing protest' out of that near universal complaint is beyond me. These people want to see the worst in everything and find nothing legitimate. A mirror would be more suitable to gaze upon such ugliness in the world for these poor souls.

pete75
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby pete75 » 26 Dec 2018, 9:39pm

Canuk wrote:The initial conflict was the result of a 20% fuel tax rise since January, (a veritable disaster in a country where 60% of the population live in rural areas with little or no access to public transport) a halt on increasing the national minimum wage and more indirect taxes on the elderly and the poor.

How anyone can pull 'right wing protest' out of that near universal complaint is beyond me. These people want to see the worst in everything and find nothing legitimate. A mirror would be more suitable to gaze upon such ugliness in the world for these poor souls.


If a mirror is the best way for them to gaze on their ugliness why don't they do that rather than demonstrating and burning cars in the street?

You're fighting a losing battle complaining about fuel price rises on this forum - many here think they're not high enough.

brynpoeth
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby brynpoeth » 26 Dec 2018, 10:03pm

Including me, fuel prices are far too low, I want to pay more :wink:
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reohn2
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby reohn2 » 26 Dec 2018, 11:02pm

pete75 wrote:
Canuk wrote:The initial conflict was the result of a 20% fuel tax rise since January, (a veritable disaster in a country where 60% of the population live in rural areas with little or no access to public transport) a halt on increasing the national minimum wage and more indirect taxes on the elderly and the poor.

How anyone can pull 'right wing protest' out of that near universal complaint is beyond me. These people want to see the worst in everything and find nothing legitimate. A mirror would be more suitable to gaze upon such ugliness in the world for these poor souls.


If a mirror is the best way for them to gaze on their ugliness why don't they do that rather than demonstrating and burning cars in the street?

You're fighting a losing battle complaining about fuel price rises on this forum - many here think they're not high enough.

It's not that fuel taxes aren't high enough in the UK,it's private car restrictions arent high enough and public transport is appalling inadequate to non existant,especially in the more congested conurbations other than in the capital.
People would use their cars less if these two things were addressed and any changes are at a snail's pace to non existant.

France is a completely different kettle of fish,it's a far bigger country with about the same population as the UK,which means by definition is far more rural and so people need their car.
It seems Macron is totally out of touch with the common wo/man(as is the UK goverment) and as a result the backlash is GJ.
The French common wo/man is more likely to take things into their own hands when things aren't going right for them,unlike the UK commoner who mourns into his or her pint and does nothing about it either at the ballot box or on the street.
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francovendee
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby francovendee » 27 Dec 2018, 8:42am

The one thing Macron has refused to shift on is his reduced taxes for the rich. I hope this will ultimately lead to his downfall as I do for the UK Tory government who cut benefits to the poor and gave huge tax breaks to their mates.

pete75
Posts: 11077
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby pete75 » 27 Dec 2018, 9:37am

reohn2 wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Canuk wrote:The initial conflict was the result of a 20% fuel tax rise since January, (a veritable disaster in a country where 60% of the population live in rural areas with little or no access to public transport) a halt on increasing the national minimum wage and more indirect taxes on the elderly and the poor.

How anyone can pull 'right wing protest' out of that near universal complaint is beyond me. These people want to see the worst in everything and find nothing legitimate. A mirror would be more suitable to gaze upon such ugliness in the world for these poor souls.


If a mirror is the best way for them to gaze on their ugliness why don't they do that rather than demonstrating and burning cars in the street?

You're fighting a losing battle complaining about fuel price rises on this forum - many here think they're not high enough.

It's not that fuel taxes aren't high enough in the UK,it's private car restrictions arent high enough and public transport is appalling inadequate to non existant,especially in the more congested conurbations other than in the capital.
People would use their cars less if these two things were addressed and any changes are at a snail's pace to non existant.

France is a completely different kettle of fish,it's a far bigger country with about the same population as the UK,which means by definition is far more rural and so people need their car.
It seems Macron is totally out of touch with the common wo/man(as is the UK goverment) and as a result the backlash is GJ.
The French common wo/man is more likely to take things into their own hands when things aren't going right for them,unlike the UK commoner who mourns into his or her pint and does nothing about it either at the ballot box or on the street.


France has 80% population in urban areas UK83% so not so different. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_ ... population

As you say quick to take things into their own hands and take action on the streets yet put them in a uniform give em a gun tell them the Germans are coming and there's very little action. The British seem very different in that respect as well.

The UK commoner has taken action at the ballot box. The Brexit vote was that action. Frexit is the aim o some of the GJ lot as well.

Canuk
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby Canuk » 27 Dec 2018, 9:54am

pete75 wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
pete75 wrote:
If a mirror is the best way for them to gaze on their ugliness why don't they do that rather than demonstrating and burning cars in the street?

You're fighting a losing battle complaining about fuel price rises on this forum - many here think they're not high enough.

It's not that fuel taxes aren't high enough in the UK,it's private car restrictions arent high enough and public transport is appalling inadequate to non existant,especially in the more congested conurbations other than in the capital.
People would use their cars less if these two things were addressed and any changes are at a snail's pace to non existant.

France is a completely different kettle of fish,it's a far bigger country with about the same population as the UK,which means by definition is far more rural and so people need their car.
It seems Macron is totally out of touch with the common wo/man(as is the UK goverment) and as a result the backlash is GJ.
The French common wo/man is more likely to take things into their own hands when things aren't going right for them,unlike the UK commoner who mourns into his or her pint and does nothing about it either at the ballot box or on the street.


France has 80% population in urban areas UK83% so not so different. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_ ... population

As you say quick to take things into their own hands and take action on the streets yet put them in a uniform give em a gun tell them the Germans are coming and there's very little action. The British seem very different in that respect as well.

The UK commoner has taken action at the ballot box. The Brexit vote was that action. Frexit is the aim o some of the GJ lot as well.


France is 7 times the size (in area) of the UK. So it's much bigger distances between towns and cities, hence predictably more expensive to get about. Hence the furore at a 20% fuel hike. I find the average Brit pretty ignorant of the geographical and political situation in France. It is my pleasure to educate.

pete75
Posts: 11077
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby pete75 » 27 Dec 2018, 10:21am

Canuk wrote:
pete75 wrote:
reohn2 wrote:It's not that fuel taxes aren't high enough in the UK,it's private car restrictions arent high enough and public transport is appalling inadequate to non existant,especially in the more congested conurbations other than in the capital.
People would use their cars less if these two things were addressed and any changes are at a snail's pace to non existant.

France is a completely different kettle of fish,it's a far bigger country with about the same population as the UK,which means by definition is far more rural and so people need their car.
It seems Macron is totally out of touch with the common wo/man(as is the UK goverment) and as a result the backlash is GJ.
The French common wo/man is more likely to take things into their own hands when things aren't going right for them,unlike the UK commoner who mourns into his or her pint and does nothing about it either at the ballot box or on the street.


France has 80% population in urban areas UK83% so not so different. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_ ... population

As you say quick to take things into their own hands and take action on the streets yet put them in a uniform give em a gun tell them the Germans are coming and there's very little action. The British seem very different in that respect as well.

The UK commoner has taken action at the ballot box. The Brexit vote was that action. Frexit is the aim o some of the GJ lot as well.


France is 7 times the size (in area) of the UK. So it's much bigger distances between towns and cities, hence predictably more expensive to get about. Hence the furore at a 20% fuel hike. I find the average Brit pretty ignorant of the geographical and political situation in France. It is my pleasure to educate.

France is 550,000 sq km, the UK is 240,000 sq km. That makes it just over twice the size of the UK not seven times. If you're going to try and educate people getting even the simplest facts wrong is not the best way to go about it.

Canuk
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Joined: 4 Oct 2016, 11:43pm

Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby Canuk » 27 Dec 2018, 10:36am

pete75 wrote:
Canuk wrote:
pete75 wrote:
France has 80% population in urban areas UK83% so not so different. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_ ... population

As you say quick to take things into their own hands and take action on the streets yet put them in a uniform give em a gun tell them the Germans are coming and there's very little action. The British seem very different in that respect as well.

The UK commoner has taken action at the ballot box. The Brexit vote was that action. Frexit is the aim o some of the GJ lot as well.


France is 7 times the size (in area) of the UK. So it's much bigger distances between towns and cities, hence predictably more expensive to get about. Hence the furore at a 20% fuel hike. I find the average Brit pretty ignorant of the geographical and political situation in France. It is my pleasure to educate.

France is 550,000 sq km, the UK is 240,000 sq km. That makes it just over twice the size of the UK not seven times. If you're going to try and educate people getting even the simplest facts wrong is not the best way to go about it.


Typo. I meant 3x the size. 643,801 sq km. Environ. Including dependencies.

England is 131,000 sq km by comparison. I'm not sure it's dependencies will still exist, after the Brexit. So you could fit it 5x into France. Environ.

pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby pete75 » 27 Dec 2018, 11:04am

Canuk wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Canuk wrote:
France is 7 times the size (in area) of the UK. So it's much bigger distances between towns and cities, hence predictably more expensive to get about. Hence the furore at a 20% fuel hike. I find the average Brit pretty ignorant of the geographical and political situation in France. It is my pleasure to educate.

France is 550,000 sq km, the UK is 240,000 sq km. That makes it just over twice the size of the UK not seven times. If you're going to try and educate people getting even the simplest facts wrong is not the best way to go about it.


Typo. I meant 3x the size. 643,801 sq km. Environ.

England is 131,000 sq km by comparison. So you could fit it 5x into France. Environ.


Hmmmm. England is not the UK. Metropolitan France is 550,00 sq km. That's mainland France along with offshore islands like Corsica. You're quoting the figure which includes Overseas France , France d'outre-mer, places like French Guiana and Reunion. The equivalent for the UK would be to include British overseas territories in which case the UK has a an area of 2 million sq km 3x the size of France using your definition of the area.

I could believe 2 or 4 as a typo for 3 but not 7.

You don't need to lecture me on the cost of transport in rural areas. I've lived in one almost all my life. Nearest shop 5 miles, Pub 2 miles, petrol station 6 miles, doctors 6 miles,school 6 miles, hospital 31, railway station 22 , major employment centre 22 etc etc. No public transport. Fuel here is dearer than in France too. As a family we spend about 70 quid a week on fuel. It's teh price of living where we do. If it went up by 20% that's only an extra 14 quid a week. The price of four pints. Big deal.

Canuk
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Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby Canuk » 27 Dec 2018, 11:31am

It might not be much to the monied, but the average hike is around 1000 euros a year for a French family, hardly peanuts if you're getting by (as the majority of rural French do) on minimum wage. Which is also under threat by the government.