Les 'gilets jaunes'

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softlips
Posts: 395
Joined: 12 Dec 2016, 8:51pm

Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby softlips » 27 Dec 2018, 12:31pm

francovendee wrote:The one thing Macron has refused to shift on is his reduced taxes for the rich. I hope this will ultimately lead to his downfall as I do for the UK Tory government who cut benefits to the poor and gave huge tax breaks to their mates.


I think taxes are high enough. The top 50% of earners now pay 90% of taxes taken.

mercalia
Posts: 9685
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby mercalia » 27 Dec 2018, 12:42pm

softlips wrote:
francovendee wrote:The one thing Macron has refused to shift on is his reduced taxes for the rich. I hope this will ultimately lead to his downfall as I do for the UK Tory government who cut benefits to the poor and gave huge tax breaks to their mates.


I think taxes are high enough. The top 50% of earners now pay 90% of taxes taken.


the question is though, how much do they take home?

pete75
Posts: 10673
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby pete75 » 27 Dec 2018, 12:44pm

Canuk wrote:It might not be much to the monied, but the average hike is around 1000 euros a year for a French family, hardly peanuts if you're getting by (as the majority of rural French do) on minimum wage. Which is also under threat by the government.


By that reckoning the average family is doing over 70,000km a year. Unlikely. A 20% rise costing a 1000 euros = 6000 euros a year on fuel. Most will be diesel which is now about 1.42 alitre so 4,200 litres a year. Most common car will be a smallish under 2 litre Peugeot, Renault or Citroen - 50 mpg plus so that 4,200 litres of fuel will take them about 75,000 km each year.

It's employers who set wages not the government.

pete75
Posts: 10673
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby pete75 » 27 Dec 2018, 12:49pm

softlips wrote:
francovendee wrote:The one thing Macron has refused to shift on is his reduced taxes for the rich. I hope this will ultimately lead to his downfall as I do for the UK Tory government who cut benefits to the poor and gave huge tax breaks to their mates.


I think taxes are high enough. The top 50% of earners now pay 90% of taxes taken.


You're not wrong. I know someone who was charged £94,000 tax last year. I'm all for people making a tax contribution to benefit others but surely there has to be a point where enough is enough.

mercalia
Posts: 9685
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby mercalia » 27 Dec 2018, 5:58pm

pete75 wrote:
softlips wrote:
francovendee wrote:The one thing Macron has refused to shift on is his reduced taxes for the rich. I hope this will ultimately lead to his downfall as I do for the UK Tory government who cut benefits to the poor and gave huge tax breaks to their mates.


I think taxes are high enough. The top 50% of earners now pay 90% of taxes taken.


You're not wrong. I know someone who was charged £94,000 tax last year. I'm all for people making a tax contribution to benefit others but surely there has to be a point where enough is enough.


what was the take home pay? must be £130,000+ ( nearly £12,000 a month!) ? maybe the point is that there should be a ceiling to how much you should be able to earn? since there is no intrinsic monetry value to any job?but artificially determined by external factors such as supply and demand and control ( from people in the same social group) from who sets the values. wealth is a zero-sum matter - the more you have the less I have & we have seen the consequences in this country in the paradox of the UK being a rich country but poverty is all around us?

https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php

slowster
Posts: 512
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby slowster » 27 Dec 2018, 6:43pm

softlips wrote:I think taxes are high enough. The top 50% of earners now pay 90% of taxes taken.

That is not true. The top 50% of earners only pay 90% of all income tax taken. Income tax only accounts for 25% of all taxes. Contrast that with VAT which accounts for 18% of the tax take, and which is widely considered to be a regressive tax because it disproportionately affects the less well off.

mercalia
Posts: 9685
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby mercalia » 27 Dec 2018, 6:51pm

slowster wrote:
softlips wrote:I think taxes are high enough. The top 50% of earners now pay 90% of taxes taken.

That is not true. The top 50% of earners only pay 90% of all income tax taken. Income tax only accounts for 25% of all taxes. Contrast that with VAT which accounts for 18% of the tax take, and which is widely considered to be a regressive tax because it disproportionately affects the less well off.


one of the reasons I try to buy 2nd hand if possible no VAT on 2nd hand goods ( if bought privately - hurrah for Ebay in that repect ). Last year I bought a pair of Epos M12i speakers for just £150 ( new they would have sold for £550), very nice neutral speakers they are

pete75
Posts: 10673
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby pete75 » 27 Dec 2018, 10:14pm

slowster wrote:
softlips wrote:I think taxes are high enough. The top 50% of earners now pay 90% of taxes taken.

That is not true. The top 50% of earners only pay 90% of all income tax taken. Income tax only accounts for 25% of all taxes. Contrast that with VAT which accounts for 18% of the tax take, and which is widely considered to be a regressive tax because it disproportionately affects the less well off.

And another 17% from Ni contributions which are,effectively, a tax. Is Vat regressive - the wealthy will pay a lot more as they spend more. Take cars for instance. Someone on a low income would buy something like a Ford Fiesta about £12000, middle income an E class Merc £40,000 and high income a Bentley £200,000. Each will attract VAT and the individuals are paying in proportion to their income. Same for clothes low income Primark, middle John Lewis and high somewhere designer and expensive. Again VAT in proportion to income.

brynpoeth
Posts: 9045
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby brynpoeth » 27 Dec 2018, 10:18pm

I am very glad to pay income or sales tax to help less fortunate people, especially children

Would not pay more than a couple of thousand for a car :wink:

Plus One for higher fuel/energy taxes
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love the three Es: enforcement, enforcement & enforcement

slowster
Posts: 512
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby slowster » 27 Dec 2018, 10:42pm

pete75 wrote:
slowster wrote:
softlips wrote:I think taxes are high enough. The top 50% of earners now pay 90% of taxes taken.

That is not true. The top 50% of earners only pay 90% of all income tax taken. Income tax only accounts for 25% of all taxes. Contrast that with VAT which accounts for 18% of the tax take, and which is widely considered to be a regressive tax because it disproportionately affects the less well off.

And another 17% from Ni contributions which are,effectively, a tax. Is Vat regressive - the wealthy will pay a lot more as they spend more. Take cars for instance. Someone on a low income would buy something like a Ford Fiesta about £12000, middle income an E class Merc £40,000 and high income a Bentley £200,000. Each will attract VAT and the individuals are paying in proportion to their income. Same for clothes low income Primark, middle John Lewis and high somewhere designer and expensive. Again VAT in proportion to income.

For the very poorest the amount they pay in VAT is twice as large a percentage of their income as the very richest. The very poorest have no spare money: they spend it all, including on those things which are subject to VAT. The richest don't need to spend all their income, and can - and generally do - save a large proportion of it, which reduces the percentage impact of VAT on them.

pete75
Posts: 10673
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby pete75 » 27 Dec 2018, 11:08pm

slowster wrote:
pete75 wrote:
slowster wrote:That is not true. The top 50% of earners only pay 90% of all income tax taken. Income tax only accounts for 25% of all taxes. Contrast that with VAT which accounts for 18% of the tax take, and which is widely considered to be a regressive tax because it disproportionately affects the less well off.

And another 17% from Ni contributions which are,effectively, a tax. Is Vat regressive - the wealthy will pay a lot more as they spend more. Take cars for instance. Someone on a low income would buy something like a Ford Fiesta about £12000, middle income an E class Merc £40,000 and high income a Bentley £200,000. Each will attract VAT and the individuals are paying in proportion to their income. Same for clothes low income Primark, middle John Lewis and high somewhere designer and expensive. Again VAT in proportion to income.

For the very poorest the amount they pay in VAT is twice as large a percentage of their income as the very richest. The very poorest have no spare money: they spend it all, including on those things which are subject to VAT. The richest don't need to spend all their income, and can - and generally do - save a large proportion of it, which reduces the percentage impact of VAT on them.

Perhaps comparing two extremes isn't really the basis for any valid discussion on the effects of taxation. The very richest have incomes in the millions the very poorest whatever they get from begging.

slowster
Posts: 512
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby slowster » 27 Dec 2018, 11:43pm

pete75 wrote:
slowster wrote:
pete75 wrote:And another 17% from Ni contributions which are,effectively, a tax. Is Vat regressive - the wealthy will pay a lot more as they spend more. Take cars for instance. Someone on a low income would buy something like a Ford Fiesta about £12000, middle income an E class Merc £40,000 and high income a Bentley £200,000. Each will attract VAT and the individuals are paying in proportion to their income. Same for clothes low income Primark, middle John Lewis and high somewhere designer and expensive. Again VAT in proportion to income.

For the very poorest the amount they pay in VAT is twice as large a percentage of their income as the very richest. The very poorest have no spare money: they spend it all, including on those things which are subject to VAT. The richest don't need to spend all their income, and can - and generally do - save a large proportion of it, which reduces the percentage impact of VAT on them.

Perhaps comparing two extremes isn't really the basis for any valid discussion on the effects of taxation. The very richest have incomes in the millions the very poorest whatever they get from begging.

I only initially posted on this thread because of the false and misleading claim about the top 50% of earners paying 90% of [all] tax.

I agree that just considering the very poorest and very richest in isolation gives an incomplete picture. In fact the poorest 10% pay much more VAT as a percentage of their income than everyone else. Although the disparity is greatest between the very poorest 10% and the very richest 10%, even those in the decile above the poorest 10% (i.e. those in the 10%-20% band) spend around 40% less on VAT as a percentage of their income.

Canuk
Posts: 1105
Joined: 4 Oct 2016, 11:43pm

Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby Canuk » 2 Jan 2019, 11:34am

Looks like the Germans will be taking to the streets 'a les gilet jaunes' in 2019:

German leftwing movement 'will take to streets like gilets jaunes in 2019'

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... _clipboard

brynpoeth
Posts: 9045
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby brynpoeth » 2 Jan 2019, 11:35am

Canuk wrote:Looks like the Germans will be taking to the streets 'a les gilet jaunes' in 2019:

German leftwing movement 'will take to streets like gilets jaunes in 2019'

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... _clipboard

Like in France, not sure if they are on the far left or the far right :? or just voters dissatisfied with normal parties
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love the three Es: enforcement, enforcement & enforcement

Canuk
Posts: 1105
Joined: 4 Oct 2016, 11:43pm

Re: Les 'gilets jaunes'

Postby Canuk » 2 Jan 2019, 11:49am

brynpoeth wrote:
Canuk wrote:Looks like the Germans will be taking to the streets 'a les gilet jaunes' in 2019:

German leftwing movement 'will take to streets like gilets jaunes in 2019'

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... _clipboard

Like in France, not sure if they are on the far left or the far right :? or just voters dissatisfied with normal parties


It seems to me this (by now) mass movement is railing against disparity between rich and poor, high taxing, pro globalist, polluting regimes who believe the electorate are idiots and will not say boo, never mind revolt.

This could be the greatest miscalculation in Europe since 1939, when it looked for all the world that the Germans were just fascist idoits in sharp uniforms, a localised phenomenon and not likely to spread.

My hope is that it does spread Europe wide and we get rid of these self serving pro global compact idiots, before it's too late to do so.

We're going to a restaurant this afternoon where the French waiter speaks 5 languages fluently, including English and Russian, provides a fantastic table service and all on 10 euros an hour. How can that be at all fair, or equitable?