EVs (electric cars)

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661-Pete
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Re: EVs (electric cars)

Post by 661-Pete »

Probably need specialist computer interfaces and special software. So much car servicing is done with a computer these days - even my humble ICE...
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Psamathe
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Re: EVs (electric cars)

Post by Psamathe »

661-Pete wrote: 1 Jun 2021, 1:20pm Probably need specialist computer interfaces and special software. So much car servicing is done with a computer these days - even my humble ICE...
True but I use two different small industrial unit service garages and both have boxes to plug into my VW Polo (ICE) which give the the diagnostics and identify faults, etc..

Ian
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: EVs (electric cars)

Post by [XAP]Bob »

661-Pete wrote: 1 Jun 2021, 9:10amPrompts the question: what reasons do folks give for buying EVs (especially the expensive, flashy ones)?
For me it was almost all about the cost, although I wouldn't consider the MG ZS to be expensive or flashy. But then I've never bought an expensive or flashy car of any sort.

Having become eligible for a motability lease I looked quite carefully at our cost of vehicle ownership over the previous decade and a bit, including all the running costs (fuel, insurance, warranty, servicing, MOT, VED, tyres, brakes, depreciation etc...)

It turned out that the lease was basically the same cost, assuming I stopped buying fuel and bought electricity instead.
The advantage of not having to deal with any unexpected costs (since the motability lease is fully inclusive of everything other than fuel) is significant, and was the main motivator for changing the way we owned a car.

I have a couple of other things which drove the decision as to which model:
- we need to be able to carry 4 people, with luggage
- we need to be able to carry my wheelchair, even with four people and luggage
(I accept that I will have to deal with some inconvenience when on a fully loaded journey)

Until something like the grand scenic is released as an electric model - I'll never get the convenience of just loading the chair as is. That's a compromise I have made, on the basis that at the end of the three years of this lease there will be more choice available.


Interestingly the unanticipated benefits are probably more significant than those we did anticipate.
- The lack of an ICE means it's sufficiently quiet that I can have a conversation without requiring my wife (or any other passenger) to wear a radio mic, which we had to do previously.
- The MG Pilot features (lane keeping and adaptive cruise control) massively increase the time I can spend driving in a day by reducing cognitive load (from about 90 minutes if I want to do anything else that day to somewhere over three hours for the same conditions).
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Stevek76
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Re: EVs (electric cars)

Post by Stevek76 »

The main diagnostics interface in cars is a standard format port and certain elements of it for the main engine ECU are a standardised communication protocol (obdII). Unfortunately much of the extra stuff is custom per manufacturers.

Chinese knock offs have somewhat filled the gap here, for example for Toyota, a poor quality interface cable is about £30, a decent one is more like £70, the Toyota recommended one is more like £400 I think. Both the Chinese ones tend to come with dodgy and likely virus ridden copies of the software though at least in Europe Toyota seem to have responded somewhat sensibly to this and sell day licenses for the official software and all service documents for a few quid.

Open user repairability for all products is something that really needs ongoing efforts from EU, US etc
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Jdsk
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Re: EVs (electric cars)

Post by Jdsk »

Stevek76 wrote: 1 Jun 2021, 1:47pm The main diagnostics interface in cars is a standard format port and certain elements of it for the main engine ECU are a standardised communication protocol (obdII). Unfortunately much of the extra stuff is custom per manufacturers.
Tesla don't fit a standard ODB-11 port but an adaptor is available:
https://ohptools.com/blogs/news/all-you ... tools-apps

Jonathan
Stevek76
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Re: EVs (electric cars)

Post by Stevek76 »

Interesting as I thought obdII and even the distance from the steering wheel were something required by both US and EU regulations, there a loophole here generally or just because this is an EV and most of the obd regs are driven by emissions matters?
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: EVs (electric cars)

Post by [XAP]Bob »

IIRC ODB was designed to allow reading for emissions testing, which just isn't a thing...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Jdsk
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Re: EVs (electric cars)

Post by Jdsk »

ODB-11:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics

CAN bus:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics.

...

Yes, the EPA was one of the pressures leading to widespread adoption.

Jonathan
niggle
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Re: EVs (electric cars)

Post by niggle »

For many EVs after they have been around a couple of years somebody comes up with an app that can interface with the car using a mobile phone and Bluetooth dongle plugged into the OBDII port, e.g. Leafspy for the Nissan Leaf, CANion for the Mitsubishi iMiev/Peugeot Ion/Citroen C-Zero (same car really).

So far the number of failures of the actual drivetrains of EVs appears very low and that side of things requires very little servicing, as said above it is mostly stuff like brakes, steering and suspension and the very occasional change of the reduction/differential gear oil on some models, which is dead easy really, less to it than an engine oil change and much less frequent, though I have head that the special battery cooling fluid on Kias and Hyundais needs changing every 36k and they charge a fair bit for that.

There are already a few independent specialists springing up willing to look after EVs and even one lot who will swap out the battery on a 24kWh or 30kWh battery Nissan Leaf for a 40kWh or 62kWh battery salvaged from crash damaged later models, at a price of course. Eventually the breakers will have second hand spares to replace the expensive stuff like on board chargers, dc converters and motors, probably already true of the old model Nissan Leaf.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: EVs (electric cars)

Post by [XAP]Bob »

niggle wrote: 1 Jun 2021, 7:38pm For many EVs after they have been around a couple of years somebody comes up with an app that can interface with the car using a mobile phone and Bluetooth dongle plugged into the OBDII port, e.g. Leafspy for the Nissan Leaf, CANion for the Mitsubishi iMiev/Peugeot Ion/Citroen C-Zero (same car really).

So far the number of failures of the actual drivetrains of EVs appears very low and that side of things requires very little servicing, as said above it is mostly stuff like brakes, steering and suspension and the very occasional change of the reduction/differential gear oil on some models, which is dead easy really, less to it than an engine oil change and much less frequent, though I have head that the special battery cooling fluid on Kias and Hyundais needs changing every 36k and they charge a fair bit for that.

There are already a few independent specialists springing up willing to look after EVs and even one lot who will swap out the battery on a 24kWh or 30kWh battery Nissan Leaf for a 40kWh or 62kWh battery salvaged from crash damaged later models, at a price of course. Eventually the breakers will have second hand spares to replace the expensive stuff like on board chargers, dc converters and motors, probably already true of the old model Nissan Leaf.
Or open vehicle monitor (https://www.openvehicles.com) for basically any of them.

And some of the surprisingly expensive bits are the charge ports. Though they do have to be able to safely deal with 400V at 125A at a minimum (there are a handful of Zoe models without DC charging, but not many).
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
niggle
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Re: EVs (electric cars)

Post by niggle »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 2 Jun 2021, 8:52am [(there are a handful of Zoe models without DC charging, but not many).
Are you referring to new Zoe’s? The vast majority of used ones with the 40kWh battery (ZE40 models, ignoring earlier ones with the short range 22kwh battery) only have 22kW ac charging, denoted by the model code R, e.g. R110, there are just a few around with rapid ac 43kw charging, denoted by model code Q, e.g. Q90, which is a lot better but still not quite as quick as dc rapid charging. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think CCS DC rapid charging only came with the ZE50 model.
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squeaker
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Re: EVs (electric cars)

Post by squeaker »

niggle wrote: 1 Jun 2021, 7:38pm So far the number of failures of the actual drivetrains of EVs appears very low and that side of things requires very little servicing, as said above it is mostly stuff like brakes, steering and suspension and the very occasional change of the reduction/differential gear oil on some models, which is dead easy really, less to it than an engine oil change and much less frequent, though I have head that the special battery cooling fluid on Kias and Hyundais needs changing every 36k and they charge a fair bit for that.
There's always the odd one out though (at 16m50s) :shock:
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niggle
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Re: EVs (electric cars)

Post by niggle »

squeaker wrote: 2 Jun 2021, 10:25am
niggle wrote: 1 Jun 2021, 7:38pm So far the number of failures of the actual drivetrains of EVs appears very low and that side of things requires very little servicing, as said above it is mostly stuff like brakes, steering and suspension and the very occasional change of the reduction/differential gear oil on some models, which is dead easy really, less to it than an engine oil change and much less frequent, though I have head that the special battery cooling fluid on Kias and Hyundais needs changing every 36k and they charge a fair bit for that.
There's always the odd one out though (at 16m50s) :shock:
Yes I watched that previously, a bit worrying at a mere 80000 miles when there is no time or mileage to change the transmission oil on the Nissan official service schedule, which goes up to 120000 miles, though inspection of the fluid level should be done every 15000 miles. BTW the MG 5 EV that is actually being reviewed looks like an excellent value family vehicle, well equipped and spacious, 200 mile range and should work out a lot cheaper than any equivalent ICE over the length of its 7 years 80000 miles warranty as long as you can charge it at home.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: EVs (electric cars)

Post by [XAP]Bob »

niggle wrote: 2 Jun 2021, 10:10am
[XAP]Bob wrote: 2 Jun 2021, 8:52am [(there are a handful of Zoe models without DC charging, but not many).
Are you referring to new Zoe’s? The vast majority of used ones with the 40kWh battery (ZE40 models, ignoring earlier ones with the short range 22kwh battery) only have 22kW ac charging, denoted by the model code R, e.g. R110, there are just a few around with rapid ac 43kw charging, denoted by model code Q, e.g. Q90, which is a lot better but still not quite as quick as dc rapid charging. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think CCS DC rapid charging only came with the ZE50 model.
Not paid a huge amount of attention to the Zoe lineup, because it's really not a suitable car for a chair user, but IIRC some of them had higher speed charging as an optional extra.

For a town runabout that's almost certainly fine, but it's a somewhat limiting choice.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
sjs
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Re: EVs (electric cars)

Post by sjs »

661-Pete wrote: 1 Jun 2021, 9:10am
Prompts the question: what reasons do folks give for buying EVs (especially the expensive, flashy ones)?

[edit] of course it might be a company car....
I have a Tesla Model 3. It is a company car and I chose it mainly because it is less expensive to have than nearly any ICE car among those I could have chosen, based on fuel costs and the zero BIK tax rate. Also it's greenish, comfortable and very rapidly accelerating when I want to surprise passengers.
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