Imitation or Real?

[pwa]

The conifer plantations in Wales were all planted as crops. That was the reason for the initial effort and expense of planting them. It should come as no surprise when a crop is harvested.

It's the economy stupid
But now it is accepted that monoculture and clear felling have many drawbacks
Are these advances being heeded by the forestry commission in Wales?

For about twenty years they have been allowing native deciduous trees such as birch to colonise on newly felled areas, increasing diversity and wildlife potential. But obviously while timber is needed there are still areas that must be re-planted with conifers. And the floor beneath is often used for mountain biking and other outdoor recreation.

[Ben@Forest]

Are these advances being heeded by the forestry commission in Wales?

There's no such thing as Forestry Commission Wales. Its responsibilities were taken over by Natural Resources Wales about 5 years ago.

[pwa]

I was listening to a bloke on Radio 4 mulling over the financial and environmental costs of real / plastic trees and his conclusion was that so long as your imitation tree lasts several years there is not much to choose between, and neither is a big environmental problem when you consider all the more damaging things we do.

[PH]

I don't think I've ever had a tree, real or otherwise, as a kid a Christmas Tree was something to go and see rather than have and I've kept up that family tradition...
Christmas always involves at least one trip south and the tree in St Pancras station is usually interesting, though this years wasn't exceptional

My favorite is the one along a cycle track that gets decorated every year, I don't know who goes to all that trouble, but it always makes me smile.

[Cyril Haearn]

I was listening to a bloke on Radio 4 mulling over the financial and environmental costs of real / plastic trees and his conclusion was that so long as your imitation tree lasts several years there is not much to choose between, and neither is a big environmental problem when you consider all the more damaging things we do.

Best to have neither
Or find a branch that fell off a tree, make a tree of the branch, put it back later

[Ben@Forest]

I was listening to a bloke on Radio 4 mulling over the financial and environmental costs of real / plastic trees and his conclusion was that so long as your imitation tree lasts several years there is not much to choose between, and neither is a big environmental problem when you consider all the more damaging things we do.

If the financial costs mean those incurred by the buyer I'm sure an imitation tree is cheaper, possibly when just used once, let alone for a number of years. Up here it was possible to buy a good 5.5ft Norway spruce for £25 though, you don't have to buy a £60 Nordmann's fir.

However l think the environmental cost will be higher with an imitation tree. They will likely be made from inorganic material ultimately derived from oil, will not be recyclable and will take anything from 40 to 1,000 years to decompose in landfill. This tops the small amount of fossil fuels or derived products used in growing the trees.

The fact that the trees do lock up organic carbon as they grow is a bit of a canard because of course they release it when they are recycled, to be taken up by the next trees. However what hasn't been mentioned is that most real trees are British grown and require full time work to plant and maintain. Most imitation trees are imported. So by buying real trees you are likely helping support British businesses and workers.

[pwa]

I was listening to a bloke on Radio 4 mulling over the financial and environmental costs of real / plastic trees and his conclusion was that so long as your imitation tree lasts several years there is not much to choose between, and neither is a big environmental problem when you consider all the more damaging things we do.

If the financial costs mean those incurred by the buyer I'm sure an imitation tree is cheaper, possibly when just used once, let alone for a number of years. Up here it was possible to buy a good 5.5ft Norway spruce for £25 though, you don't have to buy a £60 Nordmann's fir.

However l think the environmental cost will be higher with an imitation tree. They will likely be made from inorganic material ultimately derived from oil, will not be recyclable and will take anything from 40 to 1,000 years to decompose in landfill. This tops the small amount of fossil fuels or derived products used in growing the trees.

The fact that the trees do lock up organic carbon as they grow is a bit of a canard because of course they release it when they are recycled, to be taken up by the next trees. However what hasn't been mentioned is that most real trees are British grown and require full time work to plant and maintain. Most imitation trees are imported. So by buying real trees you are likely helping support British businesses and workers.

I think those are all good points, but the amount of plastic in my current artificial tree (on about its fourth season) is not that great, and the real trees I was buying before we got that always came wrapped it a copious amount of plastic in the form of a net. A single use net re-bought every year but avoided if you have a pretend tree. So even the concern about plastics (which I share) is not addressed fully by going natural. And the longer you keep your artificial tree the less it is a concern.

But I agree that there is something nice about supporting the local Christmas tree trade with its local crop being sold to put money in the pockets of local people. It will not be true everywhere but around here it is possible to buy a tree that, even after you have driven to collect it, will have fewer miles on the clock than almost any product I can think of.

[Tangled Metal]

Plastic net? Did you know that a lot of plastic netting used in industry and food areas is derived from natural sources not petrochemical industry. Starch based not oil based. I have no idea about Xmas tree mesh but I'd be surprised if a lot of Xmas tree mesh isn't the starch derived plastics since that's the way the sector has gone these days. It's also biodegradable if it's starch derived.

Our tree comes from a field 2 miles down the road from where we live. We make a big deal of going there with wellies and a spade to dig out own. The whole family goes including the dog. The bare root tree goes into a pot we have and the tree goes into the ground in our backyard after Xmas. It carries on growing but last year's died due to the hot spell earlier this year because we moved it. Plus this year's is 7 ft so 8 ft next year will be too big so it'll stay in the garden.

Basically I don't see it as which is better environmentally but which is what I want. I want a real tree. IMHO the way we get it really adds to Xmas. Taking a 6 year old to choose the tree, dig it up yourself, pay less than a normal real Xmas tree retailer and you get the real tree smell. Alternative is pay a lot more for an artificial tree which personally looks too uniform to be realistic and tbh in our family false Xmas trees don't have a long life. Longer than a real tree but it doesn't have as much for it when compared to real one.

[pwa]

We always had real trees when the kids were kids but they are now young adults and the last real tree we had cost £45 for a couple of weeks use before becoming expensive kindling. I reckoned that if a fairly realistic looking artificial one lasted ten years it would be displacing £450 worth of real ones, and it wasn't going to cost a third of that.

[thirdcrank]

Apart from Christmas cards, we've had no trimmings this year at all.

Over the years, we've had various sorts of Christmas tree and I was quite successful in getting real ones which had been dug up rather than sawn down to grow in my hedge.

For a number of years, we've had one made from recycled umbrella spokes which came from Habitat in York. It folds down and packs away quite small and has its own lights. This year it stayed in the cupboard.

Bah humbug!

[mercalia]

We always had real trees when the kids were kids but they are now young adults and the last real tree we had cost £45 for a couple of weeks use before becoming expensive kindling. I reckoned that if a fairly realistic looking artificial one lasted ten years it would be displacing £450 worth of real ones, and it wasn't going to cost a third of that.

the problem is that they are sold rootless so after a few weeks are just rubbish? I got a small one from Lidl with roots, potted so should grow into something bigger over the years. The problem is the seller/ they want to make lots of money as easily as possible, just go to their forest with a saw? ( and they have a captive market - do the same next year )

[pwa]

We always had real trees when the kids were kids but they are now young adults and the last real tree we had cost £45 for a couple of weeks use before becoming expensive kindling. I reckoned that if a fairly realistic looking artificial one lasted ten years it would be displacing £450 worth of real ones, and it wasn't going to cost a third of that.

the problem is that they are sold rootless so after a few weeks are just rubbish? I got a small one from Lidl with roots, potted so should grow into something bigger over the years. The problem is the seller/ they want to make lots of money as easily as possible, just go to their forest with a saw? ( and they have a captive market - do the same next year )

I'm not keen on the potted sort. Conifers such as Norway Spruce don't suit pots. They grow fast and their natural root pattern is sprawling. And when you bring an outdoor potted plant into the house you bring the woodlice and other invertebrates with it. IfIi were doing that I would go to a garden centre and find a more suitable dwarf conifer rather than a tree species.

[mercalia]

We always had real trees when the kids were kids but they are now young adults and the last real tree we had cost £45 for a couple of weeks use before becoming expensive kindling. I reckoned that if a fairly realistic looking artificial one lasted ten years it would be displacing £450 worth of real ones, and it wasn't going to cost a third of that.

the problem is that they are sold rootless so after a few weeks are just rubbish? I got a small one from Lidl with roots, potted so should grow into something bigger over the years. The problem is the seller/ they want to make lots of money as easily as possible, just go to their forest with a saw? ( and they have a captive market - do the same next year )

I'm not keen on the potted sort. Conifers such as Norway Spruce don't suit pots. They grow fast and their natural root pattern is sprawling. And when you bring an outdoor potted plant into the house you bring the woodlice and other invertebrates with it. IfIi were doing that I would go to a garden centre and find a more suitable dwarf conifer rather than a tree species.

oh I didnt know there were dwarf ones. May be the lidl ones are dwarf? The name tag said Picea glauca "Conica"

ah is dwarf, slow growing reaches a max height of 7 feet within 25 years
https://www.gardeningexpress.co.uk/n10899-picea-glauca-conica-dwarf-alberta-spruce

[pwa]

the problem is that they are sold rootless so after a few weeks are just rubbish? I got a small one from Lidl with roots, potted so should grow into something bigger over the years. The problem is the seller/ they want to make lots of money as easily as possible, just go to their forest with a saw? ( and they have a captive market - do the same next year )

I'm not keen on the potted sort. Conifers such as Norway Spruce don't suit pots. They grow fast and their natural root pattern is sprawling. And when you bring an outdoor potted plant into the house you bring the woodlice and other invertebrates with it. IfIi were doing that I would go to a garden centre and find a more suitable dwarf conifer rather than a tree species.

oh I didnt know there were dwarf ones. May be the lidl ones are dwarf? The name tag said Picea glauca "Conica"

ah is dwarf, slow growing reaches a max height of 7 feet within 25 years
https://www.gardeningexpress.co.uk/n10899-picea-glauca-conica-dwarf-alberta-spruce

That does sound more practical than a baby Norway Spruce in a pot.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi
If you want someone to grow move it to a bigger pot.