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Re: I am not a vegan

Posted: 3 Jan 2019, 5:16pm
by brynpoeth
Vorpal wrote:..
most people who have been vegetarian for any length of time can no longer easily digest meat, and some will actually become ill upon eating it
..

Really, any other opinions? I have been a vegetarian for years and years, been dreaming for a while of trying meat again, best to eat it in the morning so the digestion has time to work its magic? :?

Re: I am not a vegan

Posted: 3 Jan 2019, 5:19pm
by brynpoeth
661-Pete wrote:Well said, but I still maintain that Ant's post is a wind-up (and I'm not even a veggie, so I don't feel personally targeted). I have seen similar comments from many who pervade the Comments columns in the Guardian. God only knows what goes on in the Daily Fail, since I tend to avoid going there...

One of my favourites: 'This comment was removed by a moderator because it did not obey fora rules, other posts may be removed too' :wink:

Re: I am not a vegan

Posted: 3 Jan 2019, 5:21pm
by al_yrpal
I remember back when Morrisey was singing 'Meat is Murder' my teenage daughter went vegetarian. Trouble was she didnt like proper fish and the only vegetable she would eat was Peas! This lead to a monotonous diet of Fish Fingers and Peas and the odd egg. It didnt last. :lol:
We are a carniverous species as evidenced by our teeth amongst other things. Although I guess that back in Cave Man days meat was only eaten occasionally when they managed to catch something. What steps do vegetarians have to take to ensure they get all the vitamins and minerals their bodies need?

Al

Re: I am not a vegan

Posted: 3 Jan 2019, 5:30pm
by brynpoeth
Yes, once a month they caught a mammoth, had to eat it all in a couple of days :? then three lean weeks

Vegetarians get plenty of vitamins easily, no need for special measures unless one is pregnant maybe

Re: I am not a vegan

Posted: 3 Jan 2019, 5:32pm
by pwa
al_yrpal wrote:I remember back when Morrisey was singing 'Meat is Murder' my teenage daughter went vegetarian. Trouble was she didnt like proper fish and the only vegetable she would eat was Peas! This lead to a monotonous diet of Fish Fingers and Peas and the odd egg. It didnt last. :lol:
We are a carniverous species as evidenced by our teeth amongst other things. Although I guess that back in Cave Man days meat was only eaten occasionally when they managed to catch something. What steps do vegetarians have to take to ensure they get all the vitamins and minerals their bodies need?

Al

Being vegetarian, for most vegetarians, means not eating any animal life, including fish.

You are right though. As with any radical change of diet, you should do a bit of reading first. Protein (contrary to myth) is easily found, as are other nutrients. I reckon my family (vegetarian) have done better than most omnivorous families for the various nutrients, especially vitamins. Think of all the meat eaters who don't like their greens. And a lot of our food is "normal" stuff like beans on toast, which people eat without thinking of it as being vegetarian. Vegan food, however, is more of a challenge and if I had a teenage offspring taking that up I would be sitting down with them and researching dishes that could tick all the nutrition boxes.

Humans can eat a wide variety of diets. We have choice.

Re: I am not a vegan

Posted: 3 Jan 2019, 5:49pm
by al_yrpal
Mammoth steaks… .Mmmmmm I have one old sailing friend aged 65 who has never got past peas :lol:

Al

Re: I am not a vegan

Posted: 4 Jan 2019, 7:31am
by Vorpal
brynpoeth wrote:
Vorpal wrote:..
most people who have been vegetarian for any length of time can no longer easily digest meat, and some will actually become ill upon eating it
..

Really, any other opinions? I have been a vegetarian for years and years, been dreaming for a while of trying meat again, best to eat it in the morning so the digestion has time to work its magic? :?

I think it's okay if you introduce it slowly and pay attention to how your body reacts to it. Some people have no problems whatsoever. Some people experience a period of indigestion, or minor gastric disruption. Some people (not everyone) stop making the enzymes to digest some meat proteins when they have gone long periods without it. Most of those begin to manufacture it again when meat is reintroduced, but it can take some time. There are a few folks who never learn to tolerate eating meat again. It is possible that they have self-treated another issue, such as an allergy without realising it.

The advice for reintroduction on this page seems reasonable. https://www.cleaneatingkitchen.com/how- ... eat-vegan/

In the last few years, I eat a little fish, but I am quite particular about it. I have not eaten any other flesh in more than 30 years, and I have no intention of doing so. I have had a few friends who attempted to reintroduce some meats. All but one of them managed to do so.

Re: I am not a vegan

Posted: 4 Jan 2019, 9:33am
by 661-Pete
Vorpal wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:
Vorpal wrote:..
most people who have been vegetarian for any length of time can no longer easily digest meat, and some will actually become ill upon eating it
..

Really, any other opinions? I have been a vegetarian for years and years, been dreaming for a while of trying meat again, best to eat it in the morning so the digestion has time to work its magic? :?

I think it's okay if you introduce it slowly and pay attention to how your body reacts to it. Some people have no problems whatsoever. Some people experience a period of indigestion, or minor gastric disruption. Some people (not everyone) stop making the enzymes to digest some meat proteins when they have gone long periods without it. Most of those begin to manufacture it again when meat is reintroduced, but it can take some time. There are a few folks who never learn to tolerate eating meat again. It is possible that they have self-treated another issue, such as an allergy without realising it.

The advice for reintroduction on this page seems reasonable. https://www.cleaneatingkitchen.com/how- ... eat-vegan/

In the last few years, I eat a little fish, but I am quite particular about it. I have not eaten any other flesh in more than 30 years, and I have no intention of doing so. I have had a few friends who attempted to reintroduce some meats. All but one of them managed to do so.
I didn't know any of this, but a timely reminder. We're due on a trip to South America later this year, and in some of the countries we visit (esp. Argentina - anyone had experience?) non-meat meals may be hard to come by. I haven't sent any 'special dietary' message to the tour company, because only two or three meals plus breakfasts are inclusive. For the rest we'll have to seek out restaurants.

If we do have to re-introduce meat (been off it these past 20 years - but we eat fish), we'll do so only with great reluctance, and only for the duration of the trip, not after.

So do we need to 'prepare' ourselves? I'd rather not. During these 20 years I may have consumed the odd bit of meat, but only by accident...

[edit] Thinking a bit more about it, this advice is more pertinent perhaps to former vegans who are re-introducing dairy to their diet. As we all know, many dairy products are essentially somewhat indigestible...

Re: I am not a vegan

Posted: 4 Jan 2019, 10:17am
by Vorpal
661-Pete wrote:I didn't know any of this, but a timely reminder. We're due on a trip to South America later this year, and in some of the countries we visit (esp. Argentina - anyone had experience?) non-meat meals may be hard to come by. I haven't sent any 'special dietary' message to the tour company, because only two or three meals plus breakfasts are inclusive. For the rest we'll have to seek out restaurants.

If we do have to re-introduce meat (been off it these past 20 years - but we eat fish), we'll do so only with great reluctance, and only for the duration of the trip, not after.

So do we need to 'prepare' ourselves? I'd rather not. During these 20 years I may have consumed the odd bit of meat, but only by accident...

[edit] Thinking a bit more about it, this advice is more pertinent perhaps to former vegans who are re-introducing dairy to their diet. As we all know, many dairy products are essentially somewhat indigestible...

I've never been to Argentina, though based upon my experience with other Latin American countries, you will find it somewhat harder to obtain vegetarian food than in most European countries, but not impossible. Whether you resort to eating some meat will depend upon your tolerance for going out of your way, accomodating other solutions, and/or settling for salad + dessert.

Poultry will be easier to digest than red meats, and it is likely, even if there are no vegetarian options, that you can order something with bits of meat in and pick them out. Everywhere I have travelled, I have generally found ethnic restaurants (Italian, Chinese, Indian, etc.) to be both available, and willing to provide some vegetarian alternatives, even if they don't normally have them on the menu.

As for preparing yourselves, I shouldn't think it necessary, as long as you don't consume a large steak the first time you try meat.

Re: I am not a vegan

Posted: 4 Jan 2019, 11:40am
by 661-Pete
Yep - chicken seems a more tolerable fallback: no chance of a rare steak in this parish, at any rate! For my reasons for adopting the no-meat habit - first it was red meat, then all meat - I have a great deal to thank this esteemed gentleman for: :mrgreen:

Re: I am not a vegan

Posted: 4 Jan 2019, 11:50am
by pwa
You don't have to give up being vegetarian (I don't know about vegan) just because you visit a country where eating out means eating fish or meat. You just cook for yourself. That's what we have generally done in France, for example. You have to be good at reading labels. The French will slip goose fat into cans of legumes for example. But if you can cook, which we can, you can eat.

Re: I am not a vegan

Posted: 4 Jan 2019, 11:55am
by Cugel
There are degrees of vegetarianism. They vary with the reaons for adopting that diet.

I was a casual vegetarian for 25 years after becoming aware of the nature of factory farming and my inability to differentiate animal products that came from such practices from those sourced from more kindly methods of raising, using and eventually killing beasts. I ate eggs, veggie cheese (no rennet) and fish. Also the odd bit of shot wild beast.

We did evolve as carnivorous omnivores so a health-based case for being veggie is quite hard to make for most people. There are many other cases, though, to justify vegetarianism. My own was being against factory farming practices but I now eat meat that comes from traceable sources that are also traditional-method - no surfeit of antibiotics, no caged/tortured animals, natural diets without the dangerous ingredients used in factory farming, humane killing regimes, etc..

In truth I would like to forego all such products over which I have no direct control. I would prefer to hunt and raise my own. This may be practical for a few but can't work for the huge populations of modern life. Thus, being vegetarian becomes the only solution, really, if you have reasons other than purely dietary for not eating animal products.

At present me and t'ladywife eat only a little animal produce which we buy direct from known producers we can observe. But .... what about the dog-food? That's a difficult one and so far unsolved.

Cugel

Re: I am not a vegan

Posted: 4 Jan 2019, 12:17pm
by pwa
If you could be bothered you can, apparently, give a dog all its dietary requirements through a vegetarian diet. Obviously you would have to do some proper research to get it right. You can't do the same with cats though.

Re: I am not a vegan

Posted: 4 Jan 2019, 2:38pm
by Ben@Forest
pwa wrote:If you could be bothered you can, apparently, give a dog all its dietary requirements through a vegetarian diet. Obviously you would have to do some proper research to get it right. You can't do the same with cats though.


There is a clip of film where a dog owner is telling TV presenters her dog is vegetarian and prefers that diet. The presenter then puts down bowls of dog food one with meat and one without. Without hesitation the dog makes a beeline for the meat. I haven't seen it but my wife has, the look of disappointment on the owner's face is apparently very amusing.

Re: I am not a vegan

Posted: 4 Jan 2019, 3:03pm
by 661-Pete
A dog is not a human. If I kept a dog (or a cat), I would certainly not deprive it of meat. But that presupposes that I would keep a dog in the first place.

I know that for many people a dog is a great comfort and excellent companion - but then I am not the same as many people. And there are just too many dogs! I wonder what the carbon footprint of the whole planet's worth of pet cats and dogs, amounts to (perhaps someone can supply the answer)?

So my take is: if you don't absolutely need a dog, don't keep one....