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Re: Anna Soubry MP: What on earth is going on?

Posted: 8 Jan 2019, 1:01pm
by pwa
roubaixtuesday wrote:
pwa wrote:Using this incident to have another pop at leave voters is just pushing us away.


I'm tired of hearing leavers blaming remain voters for their own opinions or votes. Could I suggest you take responsibility for these, regardless of what another group thinks?

If I understood that I would give a meaningful reply. As it is, all I can say is that this incident with Anna Soubry should be an opportunity for those who believe in democracy and the freedom of speech to come together for a change. That I think means all of us using this Forum. We all think our politicians must be able to speak freely and walk down the street safely.

Re: Anna Soubry MP: What on earth is going on?

Posted: 8 Jan 2019, 1:11pm
by merseymouth
Hello, Section 5 of the Public Order Act, "Causing Harassment, Distress and Alarm", says it all.
The unreasonable behaviour shown towards Anna Soubry has well overstepped the mark. The Police should have acted.
I can't abide the woman, but such behaviour towards her is quite out of order. My own M.P. annoys me just as much, a one issue mouthpiece, but I would treat her with some respect.
It is also out of order to tar all those who voted leave as being unworthy of common decency, especially saying one M.P. had already been killed by a "Leave Supporter"! Such people who carry out unreasonable act only go to show the failure of "Care in the Community". Not all who vote Conservative or Leave would have supported such a failure of rational thought. Thatcher the Milk Snatcher was an awful role model for politics in general and women's roles in the arena.
Let Sledging remain within the boundaries of cricket. MM

Re: Anna Soubry MP: What on earth is going on?

Posted: 8 Jan 2019, 1:27pm
by Ben@Forest
A few months ago a study by the University of Sheffield found that in British politics most abuse on Twitter is directed at Conservative male MPs. The biggest rise in Twitter abuse was directed at female Conservative MPs.

Of course some of this abuse will be from those 'farther to the right' than those Conservatives. But the majority is from the left.

It is simplistic to associate pro-Brexit with the right and pro-Remain with the left (as Jeremy Corbyn amply demonstrates). But vitriol comes from both sides, using the actions of a tiny number of people to determine that all Leave voters are proto-fascists is laughable.

Re: Anna Soubry MP: What on earth is going on?

Posted: 8 Jan 2019, 1:30pm
by roubaixtuesday
Ben@Forest wrote:A few months ago a study by the University of Sheffield found that in British politics most abuse on Twitter is directed at Conservative male MPs. The biggest rise in Twitter abuse was directed at female Conservative MPs.

Of course some of this abuse will be from those 'farther to the right' than those Conservatives. But the majority is from the left.

It is simplistic to associate pro-Brexit with the right and pro-Remain with the left (as Jeremy Corbyn amply demonstrates). But vitriol comes from both sides, using the actions of a tiny number of people to determine that all Leave voters are proto-fascists is laughable.


Pretending that anyone has done this is contemptible.

Re: Anna Soubry MP: What on earth is going on?

Posted: 8 Jan 2019, 2:06pm
by pete75
Ben@Forest wrote:A few months ago a study by the University of Sheffield found that in British politics most abuse on Twitter is directed at Conservative male MPs. The biggest rise in Twitter abuse was directed at female Conservative MPs.

Of course some of this abuse will be from those 'farther to the right' than those Conservatives. But the majority is from the left.

It is simplistic to associate pro-Brexit with the right and pro-Remain with the left (as Jeremy Corbyn amply demonstrates). But vitriol comes from both sides, using the actions of a tiny number of people to determine that all Leave voters are proto-fascists is laughable.


Half the online abuse of female MPs is directed at Diane Abbott. https://www.newstatesman.com/2017/09/we ... ane-abbott . This will be from the right.

Re: Anna Soubry MP: What on earth is going on?

Posted: 8 Jan 2019, 2:08pm
by Spinners
Canuk wrote:

Does the lady protest too much?


No.

It was disgraceful and unjustified behaviour by those yobs and why specifically call her a Nazi?

To be honest, I'm fed up with all the interviews held outside the HoP and my enjoyment of the lunchtime news on BBC 1 is always marred by that oh-so clever anti-Brexit twerp moving behind the person (or pundit) being interviewed. Perhaps there should be a secure media quadrangle where our polititians and media pundits could be interviewed thus allowing us to listen* to what they are saying without distraction.

*And observe their facial expressions!

Re: Anna Soubry MP: What on earth is going on?

Posted: 8 Jan 2019, 2:21pm
by bovlomov
Spinners wrote:Perhaps there should be a secure media quadrangle where our polititians and media pundits could be interviewed thus allowing us to listen* to what they are saying without distraction.

There must be dozens of studios and meeting rooms where such interviews could be conducted. I'm not sure why they need to do it al fresco. News broadcasters seem to think reports are more immediate (or up-to-the-minute) if they are filmed outside. Most often there is absolutely no benefit; the reporter has no more information than if s/he was sitting in a studio.

"I'm standing in the street, and in that building behind me something is happening. In a while we'll see some cars driving away. More as it happens!"

Re: Anna Soubry MP: What on earth is going on?

Posted: 8 Jan 2019, 3:58pm
by brynpoeth
There is some nastiness in Germany too, an afd (right-wing) politician was attacked, usually the afd is ostracised but after the attack many politicians from other parties made clear that violence was unacceptable

Re: Anna Soubry MP: What on earth is going on?

Posted: 8 Jan 2019, 4:19pm
by Oldjohnw
I just now signed a petition from More Together asking the Speaker to press for police investigation. Both Anna Soubry and Jacob Rees-Mogg were mentioned as victims of this harassment.

Re: Anna Soubry MP: What on earth is going on?

Posted: 8 Jan 2019, 4:20pm
by mjr
pwa wrote:
mjr wrote:Your invitation seemed insincere because it was clearly structured so acceptance would imply that I agreed with democracy meaning no more votes. How exactly do you think you're taking a step forward and reaching out by what looks like suggesting that I agree with you unconditionally?

I'm trying to put it simply, with no tricks. I'm just asking that we come together on this issue and say that we are the democrats and we deplore intimidation of political figures. That's it.

The trick there IMO is that surely you know that I will not say that people opposing another vote are democrats either?

pwa wrote:Using this incident to have another pop at leave voters is just pushing us away.

I am astonished that you are denying that those are leave voters!

Re: Anna Soubry MP: What on earth is going on?

Posted: 8 Jan 2019, 4:23pm
by mjr
bovlomov wrote:
Spinners wrote:Perhaps there should be a secure media quadrangle where our polititians and media pundits could be interviewed thus allowing us to listen* to what they are saying without distraction.

There must be dozens of studios and meeting rooms where such interviews could be conducted. I'm not sure why they need to do it al fresco. [...]

I agree but while that might stop the anti-Brexit protests in the backgrounds, I suspect the flag-wearing shouters would still congregate at parliament's door and harass Soubry and others as they made their way to the media zone.

Re: Anna Soubry MP: What on earth is going on?

Posted: 8 Jan 2019, 4:23pm
by thirdcrank
bovlomov wrote: ... There must be dozens of studios and meeting rooms where such interviews could be conducted. I'm not sure why they need to do it al fresco. News broadcasters seem to think reports are more immediate (or up-to-the-minute) if they are filmed outside. Most often there is absolutely no benefit; the reporter has no more information than if s/he was sitting in a studio.

"I'm standing in the street, and in that building behind me something is happening. In a while we'll see some cars driving away. More as it happens!"


This doesn't just apply to politics, of course. If there's a big soccer match where they don't have the reporting rights, the BBC will have a reporter outside the ground telling you what's happened inside. There's a big temptation for passers by to get behind the person talking to the camera and wave to their mum, put rabbits' ears on the tv presenter etc.

College Green, Westminster, is somewhere it suits both the media and politicians to conduct interviews, partly for convenience, perhaps more because it gives that air of immediacy. The media and politicians have a symbiotic relationship: eg note how often the interviewee is filmed gormlessly walking across the shot before the actual interview. With all the people doing media studies, plenty of people have picked up on things like getting a poster into the shot where it's often much more effective than background shouting which is faded out.

With a lot of staged media opportunities, the parties have their own minders to keep anybody away who might spoil the cosy image and they use other tactics like keeping the itinerary secret to the last possible moment so only supporters/ sycophants are in the know.

That's not to excuse violent or abusive behaviour but some of it is predictable.

Re: Anna Soubry MP: What on earth is going on?

Posted: 8 Jan 2019, 5:04pm
by pwa
mjr wrote:
pwa wrote:
mjr wrote:Your invitation seemed insincere because it was clearly structured so acceptance would imply that I agreed with democracy meaning no more votes. How exactly do you think you're taking a step forward and reaching out by what looks like suggesting that I agree with you unconditionally?

I'm trying to put it simply, with no tricks. I'm just asking that we come together on this issue and say that we are the democrats and we deplore intimidation of political figures. That's it.

The trick there IMO is that surely you know that I will not say that people opposing another vote are democrats either?

pwa wrote:Using this incident to have another pop at leave voters is just pushing us away.

I am astonished that you are denying that those are leave voters!


I'm not concerned in this thread about the possibility of a second referendum. I say we here are all democrats because we all believe in argument and debate, not in yobs threatening people on the street.

I did say the yobs were Leave supporters, but to blame this on all Leave supporters in general is unfair. Most of us do not follow politicians down the road yelling at them. Most of us will be very much on the side of Anna Soubry in this incident.

Re: Anna Soubry MP: What on earth is going on?

Posted: 8 Jan 2019, 6:29pm
by Cunobelin
Lets forget politics
Let forget Brexit
Lets forget that this person is an MP
Lets forgetful that she is female




Lets put in in perspective.

If the group approached a cyclist and harangued, bullied and intimidated them for that?

Re: Anna Soubry MP: What on earth is going on?

Posted: 8 Jan 2019, 6:51pm
by JimL
Cunobelin wrote:Lets forget politics
Let forget Brexit
Lets forget that this person is an MP
Lets forgetful that she is female




Lets put in in perspective.

If the group approached a cyclist and harangued, bullied and intimidated them for that?


But she is not a cyclist ( and probably doesn't like cyclists ). She is a politician and she has shouted down people in the House of Commons in the past why shouldn't ordinary people express their views about her. She was carrying out political activities (the interview) ,she was at her place of work (Westminster ) . It was a peferctly reasonable expression of free speech and if the the video on the BBC website represents the worst of the behaviour it was nothing.