Anna Soubry MP: What on earth is going on?

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Re: Anna Soubry MP: What on earth is going on?

Postby reohn2 » 9 Jan 2019, 3:24pm

drossall wrote:Free speech is a right. Mentioning rights without, in the same breath, mentioning responsibilities (the two used to be inseparable in my understanding) leads to competition between rights. My right to say what I like conflicts with your right to feel safe walking down the street, that kind of thing.

To keep my freedom of speech, I need to be able to constrain what I actually say. If I don't, someone else will do that for me, in the interests of protecting whomever I am speaking about.

I don't see any other option - it's rights and responsibilities, or it's clash of rights.

Well said and spot on!
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Re: Anna Soubry MP: What on earth is going on?

Postby brynpoeth » 9 Jan 2019, 3:41pm

Rights and responsibilities

It is quite possible to argue nicely, at public schools people learn debating, even learn to advocate things they do not believe in, Plus One!

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Re: Anna Soubry MP: What on earth is going on?

Postby Bonefishblues » 9 Jan 2019, 3:48pm

Other schools are available at which one may also learn to debate. Some allow non fee-paying pupils to attend too, I understand :wink:

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Re: Anna Soubry MP: What on earth is going on?

Postby pwa » 9 Jan 2019, 3:54pm

pete75 wrote:
pwa wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Quite. After relatively few incidents the Muslim community is tarred with terrorism. During my lifetime most of the terrorist attacks in the country were carried out white, Roman Catholic terrorists. The Catholic community was treated very differently to how Muslims have been treated by the media.

Only because they stand out. My Dad was temporarily taken into custody after an IRA bombing because he was an Irish Catholic and therefore suspicious. He thought that was natural and didn't resent it too much.

If that was all they had to go on then he shouldn't have been.

That's right, but we took into consideration that people had just been murdered, emotions were high, and he was released within an hour or so. Others weren't so lucky and went to prison for a very long time for that bombing, later to be proved innocent.

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Re: Anna Soubry MP: What on earth is going on?

Postby Ben@Forest » 9 Jan 2019, 6:02pm

Musing over this thread I've been thinking about mob mentality and how it manifests itself. A few years ago my sister, a teacher, went into work on a day the NUT were striking. She is a member of the NASUWT and they were not out.

As she passed the picket line a colleague she knew well called out, 'Scab!'. My sister just said, 'I'm not NUT' and carried on walking.

The next day and back at work that woman apologised to my sister profusely. I've no doubt the woman is an entirely pleasant and good person but it only took a little bit of standing outside the school with a banner to fire her mettle up enough to insult a colleague; and once she was off the picket line then regret it and realise it was completely out of character.

I'm not saying the bunch who intimidated Soubry necessarily fit this mould, but l bet a good few people who act in this way are ashamed of their actions when their blood has cooled.

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Re: Anna Soubry MP: What on earth is going on?

Postby Cunobelin » 9 Jan 2019, 6:23pm

Apparently in another example of how these aggressive morons are supporting Democracy and Free Soeech....

SKY are now providing security guards for their political correspondents and the BBC is providing “protection” for theirs

A real win for free speech !

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Re: Anna Soubry MP: What on earth is going on?

Postby Cunobelin » 9 Jan 2019, 7:52pm

Bonefishblues wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:
Vorpal wrote:Sort of. ... mic-state/ ... h-problems ... d515226dc7

It is also possible that extremism causes mental health issues.

There is a culural difference in perception and media portrayal about mental health and vulnerability when the perpetrator of violence is a white British person rather than Muslim and/or an ethnic minority.

Thank you

It is still little controversial as to how important this is, which is why I was careful to be generic. I have completed Prevent training, which is where as an HCP we are expected to be aware

I think what prompted the query was the use of "all too often" - is that particular turn of phrase something that you'd use again?

In the intended perspective that once is "too often" ... yes
However if that is read as it being "commonplace" then it could have been worded better

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Re: Anna Soubry MP: What on earth is going on?

Postby Cunobelin » 27 Jan 2019, 8:47am

Ben@Forest wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:What I find ironic is that you are stating that people are entitled to have their opinion heard while supporting Right Wing Extremists trying to stop exactly that!

That is almost funny if it was not so tragic

The whole issue seems to be around abuse in politics and greater society but it occurs even on this thread talking about it - looking at the 'anchor' comment above.

It's difficult to know what to think about the 'Soubry event'. It is nasty and not decent behaviour, but when would that particular incident step over the line into being illegal? When does loud shouting and offensive words become become threatening behaviour? If protestors were pulled away and arrested there'd be more response on here suggesting we'd become a police state.

I don't think this behaviour is new - when working miners went though picket lines in the 84/85 strike I'm sure the abuse and intimidation was just as bad. And in the 1830s the Duke of Wellington (then a politician) had iron shutters fitted to his house after mobs had shattered his windows on several occasions. I think the mob will always be with us.

It is not particularly relevant.

The key point in this was to deny her a voice by making anything sh had to see unusable or unrecordable......... even if fully peaceful the irony is still there

With these idiots it is a case of Free Speech for all ....... except anyone who disagrees with us!

(There is of course limit to Free Speech in the terms of "Hate Speech")