Wood Burners

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Mick F
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Re: Wood Burners

Postby Mick F » 14 Jan 2019, 11:14am

Just got back from a ride into the wilds of the English hills. 25miles and it's nice hard work in the wind. :D

We can heat our home by what method?
No gas supply.

We could use electricity I suppose, but chose to use anthracite in the kitchen range and wood in the stove in the livingroom. Tons of hot water, and lovely and cosy throughout our two bedroom bungalow.
Mick F. Cornwall

Tangled Metal
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Re: Wood Burners

Postby Tangled Metal » 14 Jan 2019, 11:49am

That's the point really, you live in a rural area without mains gas. That's the sort of area woodburners make sense IMHO. Compared to using calor gas it's still better to use wood. However I think you've noticed that wood isn't good for ranges that need to be lit 24/7 for water heating. It's simply not got a good enough burn time unless you find the best species of wood to burn. There is long burning wood type I believe. Without that you're left to burn the cleanest coal you can get your hands on.

Put simply I think wood burning for domestic heat is for the likes of MickF and those in his neighbourhood not for the Jones on suburbia.

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Mick F
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Re: Wood Burners

Postby Mick F » 14 Jan 2019, 12:14pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Put simply I think wood burning for domestic heat is for the likes of MickF and those in his neighbourhood not for the Jones on suburbia.
Yes, I think you're right, and they are the people to be targeted.
Mick F. Cornwall

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mjr
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Re: Wood Burners

Postby mjr » 14 Jan 2019, 12:26pm

Mick F wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Put simply I think wood burning for domestic heat is for the likes of MickF and those in his neighbourhood not for the Jones on suburbia.
Yes, I think you're right, and they are the people to be targeted.

I suspect there's a heck of a lot of older properties in poorer areas even in so-called urban areas which don't have mains gas - just look at https://www.nongasmap.org.uk/search?q=PE30+1AA which is central King's Lynn and it's 59% without mains gas, the other central wards are similar - and having tanks of oil standing around isn't viewed fondly in that area (much of it is Conservation Area), so banning wood burners from them would probably mean an increase in electricity use for heating and do we have the cleaner/renewable generating capacity to cope with that?

It might be slightly better in modern suburbia, but older suburbia will also have similar low mains gas penetration and gas isn't exactly pollution-free and carbon-neutral either. Gove seems to be jerking his knee, but I will read the detail later.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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661-Pete
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Re: Wood Burners

Postby 661-Pete » 14 Jan 2019, 12:27pm

Living where we do, bonfires and open fires are not an option.

We put garden prunings in the shredder. That consumes electricity. Which begs the question, where does the electricity come from?

Or we could take them to the local dump (by car - too bulky to transport by bike and anyway they're a bit iffy about cyclists turning up at the local tip...) Of course car transport doesn't come without a cost....

Third alternative is to bin garden waste for the Council to collect. They levy an extra charge on the rates for that. The amount we generate, it's not worthwhile.

Oh and we have a pile of the more woody, un-shreddable waste in the corner of the garden. Attracts insects - which attract birds - good.

Also rats.... :(

Oh and we heat our house - by gas. House gas (mostly methane) generates CO2 when burnt....

What else?
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
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Re: Wood Burners

Postby PDQ Mobile » 14 Jan 2019, 12:50pm

Ok just a couple of points.
Firstly I have never seen wood that burns better wet than dry!?
Weight of handling is a significant factor too, water is heavy stuff.

As for everyone doing it well there's a hellofa lot of wood that goes to waste here.
It requires a pretty high level of physical fitnness to "go wooding", mostly my nieghbours prefer oil!! At least as the energy major supply.

The simple fact that as it is an energy that replaces itself into the foreseeable future makes it a major rural plus.
I understand the reservations about the urban enviroment yet the fact remains that some (quite a lot?) of those pollution issues could be ameliorated using dry fuel instead of the lazy option.
One needs to get 12 months ahead, a dry store etc.
Getting ahead is the hard part for in that first year one must carry/buy double.
After that it's easy! though it's still 3 years of wood for two of burning or one will be back to square one.
"
But then ; light to handle, easy to and fast to light, far more heat output, cleaner flues, sustainable and carbon neutral.

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Re: Wood Burners

Postby Tangled Metal » 14 Jan 2019, 1:19pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:Ok just a couple of points.
Firstly I have never seen wood that burns better wet than dry!?

I don't think I said that but in case what I typed could be interpreted that way I will clarify.

There are species of trees that are good for burning fire domestic heat and ones that are not. Even among the good woods there is at least one species of tree that burns well even when green (not dry or some describe it as wet wood). That is not the same thing as saying it burns better in this state than in a completely dry state.

It is always better up burn fully dry wood. However I would bet that a lot of people do not store their supplied wood adequately to maintain the dry state. The dry wood as supplied can absorb moisture if not stored well. Considering you can go through wood supplies quickly in a woodburner. The annoying trip back out to the shed for more wood only to find the first log you put on slows the fire significantly reducing heat output clearly shows the wood is no longer dry.

pwa
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Re: Wood Burners

Postby pwa » 14 Jan 2019, 3:38pm

My own wood burner is getting on for ten years old now, but I suspect that it would lack only one feature to make it compliant with the latest standards. That feature would be a limiter that stops the air supply being turned down too low for clean combustion. As it is I supply that limiter through my choice not to turn it down too low.

In other ways the stove is very efficient with air being pre-heated before it enters the fire box, promoting a secondary burning that reignites stuff that would otherwise go up the chimney unburnt. I still see a lot of crude wood burning stoves on sale, so I am happy to see them deemed unfit for purpose.

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Mick F
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Re: Wood Burners

Postby Mick F » 14 Jan 2019, 4:02pm

Ash burnt green, is fit for a queen.

We have a mixture of wood. Privet maybe 3" thick, oak maybe 8" thick, birch 8" thick, hazel of course, holly too. Some cut into pieces for the fire lying on the hearth, the rest in longer lengths outside awaiting my attention.
All cut early spring last year and we have enough for the rest of the winter.

Meanwhile, there's three large birch trees fallen up in the wood and an oak leaning over too. It all grows too fast here in the disused flower-growing fields unused for the past 60years. No tree in our wood is older than that.
Mick F. Cornwall

Phil Fouracre
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Re: Wood Burners

Postby Phil Fouracre » 14 Jan 2019, 4:05pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:Ok just a couple of points.
Firstly I have never seen wood that burns better wet than dry!?
Weight of handling is a significant factor too, water is heavy stuff.

As for everyone doing it well there's a hellofa lot of wood that goes to waste here.
It requires a pretty high level of physical fitnness to "go wooding", mostly my nieghbours prefer oil!! At least as the energy major supply.

The simple fact that as it is an energy that replaces itself into the foreseeable future makes it a major rural plus.
I understand the reservations about the urban enviroment yet the fact remains that some (quite a lot?) of those pollution issues could be ameliorated using dry fuel instead of the lazy option.
One needs to get 12 months ahead, a dry store etc.
Getting ahead is the hard part for in that first year one must carry/buy double.
After that it's easy! though it's still 3 years of wood for two of burning or one will be back to square one.
"
But then ; light to handle, easy to and fast to light, far more heat output, cleaner flues, sustainable and carbon neutral.


Some good points! As you say, a bit of planning is all that’s required, we keep a year ahead - so we buy seasoned wood, cut to size, then seasoned for another year by us. Supplier laughingly says we’re a bit ott with our wood, but result is a cupful of dust after I clean the chimney, and no tar!
Not sure about your ‘wooding’though? Where from, what sort etc? You should leave fallen wood to rot for environmental reasons.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

pete75
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Re: Wood Burners

Postby pete75 » 14 Jan 2019, 4:34pm

Tangled Metal wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:Ok just a couple of points.
Firstly I have never seen wood that burns better wet than dry!?

I don't think I said that but in case what I typed could be interpreted that way I will clarify.

There are species of trees that are good for burning fire domestic heat and ones that are not. Even among the good woods there is at least one species of tree that burns well even when green (not dry or some describe it as wet wood). That is not the same thing as saying it burns better in this state than in a completely dry state.



Ash wet burns better than some other woods dry mainly because it has a low moisture content. Wet or dry it's reputed to be the best firewood.

There's an old rhyme about firewood that praises ash above all others.

Beechwood fires are bright and clear
If the logs are kept a year,
Chestnut's only good they say,
If for logs 'tis laid away.
Make a fire of Elder tree,
Death within your house will be;
But ash new or ash old,
Is fit for a queen with crown of gold"

Birch and fir logs burn too fast
Blaze up bright and do not last,
it is by the Irish said
Hawthorn bakes the sweetest bread.
Elm wood burns like churchyard mould,
E'en the very flames are cold
But ash green or ash brown
Is fit for a queen with golden crown."

Poplar gives a bitter smoke,
Fills your eyes and makes you choke,
Apple wood will scent your room
Pear wood smells like flowers in bloom
Oaken logs, if dry and old
keep away the winter's cold
But ash wet or ash dry
a king shall warm his slippers by.

landsurfer
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Re: Wood Burners

Postby landsurfer » 14 Jan 2019, 4:34pm

One of the big issues where we live is the amount of log burners .. burning coal !!!
I have a white car ... at the moment covered in soot spots from god knows whose "log" burner ..... :(

We burn only hard wood i have collected and some softwoods purchased ... a bi annual clean of the chimney shows little residue, we keep away from spruce and pine woods with their residue .....
It's just like that, it's just the way it is.
The road goes on forever.

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Mick F
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Re: Wood Burners

Postby Mick F » 14 Jan 2019, 5:17pm

Our stove is burning nicely now, lit by our daughter who's staying with us for a while. She's been brought up right - she knows how to light a fire! :D

It's burning nicely with a mixture of hazel and privet and also some pre-formed mixed ovoids. (Basically smokeless coal-dust compressed into nuggets) As it gets going into the evening, she'll put some oak and birch on and maybe some more ovoids too. It'll be burning most of the night.

The cats are happy.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Re: Wood Burners

Postby Bonefishblues » 14 Jan 2019, 5:21pm

landsurfer wrote:One of the big issues where we live is the amount of log burners .. burning coal !!!
I have a white car ... at the moment covered in soot spots from god knows whose "log" burner ..... :(

We burn only hard wood i have collected and some softwoods purchased ... a bi annual clean of the chimney shows little residue, we keep away from spruce and pine woods with their residue .....

You mean multi-fuel burners I think, for the way to knacker a log burner pdq is to burn much hotter-burning coal on it.

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661-Pete
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Re: Wood Burners

Postby 661-Pete » 14 Jan 2019, 5:22pm

In France (how much longer will we keep the place I wonder?) we have a wide choice with plenty of dead branches pruned from the fruit trees (apple and plum). Plus the willow that had to be felled last year (no mention of willow in that rhyme, but I presume it'll burn when seasoned). And we also have pine and cypress branches - very resinous. We even took some birch logs across from England: after cutting off some branches from our birch here in the UK, we needed to dispose of them somehow - so on our next trip we piled them into the back of the car and transported them to France! Even if they burn too fast (as the jingle says) - at least they provided some warmth - and there are still some left.

We could easily nick some oak branches from the local woodlands - indeed I've seen other locals doing just that (is it a legal right in France I wonder? "Estovers" I think it's called back in England). But we haven't gone along that path, ourselves. We have plenty. And at a pinch you can buy firewood aplenty in the local brico...
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).