Duke In Rollover

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
User avatar
Gravity Man
Posts: 6
Joined: 12 Jan 2019, 4:13pm
Location: Sometimes at sea, sometimes not

Re: Duke In Rollover

Postby Gravity Man » 18 Jan 2019, 1:07am

Glad to hear that Phil the Greek has escaped relatively unscathed from his contretemps with a Kia.

As regards the 'problem' of increasing numbers of older drivers -

If, because of the ever increasing performance and speed of cars and the acknowledged decline in age-related speed and performance (reaction times) of elderly drivers it can be inferred that there has become an increased danger to the general public, both motorised and pedestrianised, there might be a case for limiting the amount of 'exposure' to the danger by reducing the number of miles driven by the persons in that age group.

The reduction in driving miles could either be voluntarily self-imposed 'for the good of all' -- but that would rely on a driver's willingness to accept that they indeed do have an age-related reduction in their driving ability that is likely to increase the chances of accidents and incidents, and how likely is that ? -- or by direct governmental intervention in the form of laws, and a charge-per-mile or 'mileage tax'.

The first idea would probably be unworkable and the second would probably be wildly unpopular but so are a lot of other things ... and when did unworkability or unpopularity ever make any difference to government ?

Does anyone have any other ideas ?
If there's always biscuits in the tin, where's the fun in biscuits ? -- Gary from 'Men Behaving Badly' :mrgreen:

roubaixtuesday
Posts: 1888
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Duke In Rollover

Postby roubaixtuesday » 18 Jan 2019, 7:07am

Tangled Metal wrote:Don't you have to reapply for tie licence every 5 years from 70 years of age? The form gets you to confirm you're fit to drive. So the checking is in place.


Self checking - near worthless.

Oldjohnw
Posts: 1239
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Duke In Rollover

Postby Oldjohnw » 18 Jan 2019, 7:31am

This is what the AA has to say:

.
Edmund King, the president of the AA, said: “We wish the Duke of Edinburgh well. Many commentators use high-profile car crashes involving elderly drivers as a reason to call for bans or restrictions on older drivers. If driving restrictions based on age and safety were introduced we would be more likely to restrict young drivers than older drivers."
John

Cycling and recycling

tatanab
Posts: 3702
Joined: 8 Feb 2007, 12:37pm

Re: Duke In Rollover

Postby tatanab » 18 Jan 2019, 7:50am

Dazzled by the sun say the newspapers. To us that is a familiar and oft used excuse. Whilst I admire Prince Philip, I am sorry sir, but this time I have to wonder about a charge of careless driving.

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5214
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Duke In Rollover

Postby Tangled Metal » 18 Jan 2019, 8:05am

roubaixtuesday wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Don't you have to reapply for tie licence every 5 years from 70 years of age? The form gets you to confirm you're fit to drive. So the checking is in place.


Self checking - near worthless.

I didn't think of that. :roll: :wink:
Sorry I was trying to make that point using a lower form of wit. I agree with your assessment and have seen it. In fact it's go further by saying it's also family / friends checking too that fails. I mean, which son or daughter who loves their parent is going to try and take away their parent's independence?

I've seen that dilemma from wife, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters and other family members. All discussing that the person isn't safe to drive but not wanting to intervene. You do know what's right when you're close to a driver you believe isn't safe driving. It's just that you can't always bring yourself to take action.

User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 45544
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Duke In Rollover

Postby Mick F » 18 Jan 2019, 8:12am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Me at 60 have noticed my reactions are slower than they used to be, I cant react quickly enough physically.
Me too, but it's come to me a little later.
66 now, and it's been in the past year that I noticed. I'm driving more gently and peacefully these days, out of being relaxed but also noticing that I'm slowing down in all things these days.

Driving in the dark is becoming more difficult, where in the past, I used to much prefer it.
Mick F. Cornwall

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5214
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Duke In Rollover

Postby Tangled Metal » 18 Jan 2019, 8:16am

The AA guy has used the same tripe about the driving hazards presented by different generations. If there's a problem it needs a solution. Dangerous drivers should not be driving. A simple goal irrespective of age.

It is not a case that more young drivers are dangerous so stop them driving instead of dangerous elderly. It is a case both sets should stop driving or of possible whatever makes them dangerous is taken away or trained out of them.

I am sure people can see the logic in this probably impossible to attain goal.

francovendee
Posts: 838
Joined: 5 May 2009, 6:32am

Re: Duke In Rollover

Postby francovendee » 18 Jan 2019, 8:16am

Luckily no one was seriously hurt but had someone, other than the Duke, been killed and he was found to be at fault (very unlikely!) would he have been charged with dangerous driving?
I heard today the council is looking at the speed limit on this stretch of road.
I don't want to ban drivers over a certain age, for some it's the only way to get about.
In the Dukes case he's got drivers aplenty.
Without respect, I's suggest he sticks to driving the horse and carts.

tatanab
Posts: 3702
Joined: 8 Feb 2007, 12:37pm

Re: Duke In Rollover

Postby tatanab » 18 Jan 2019, 8:20am

Same as MickF, at 66. Night driving has been uncomfortable for a few years, typical middle aged eye reactions to lights. Consequently I try not to drive strange roads after dark - this does not seem to be an issue when cycling. I am aware that reaction times have deteriorated and I am aware that I have made mistakes so I am more watchful of my driving.

Some of the ideas about limiting distance aged folk are allowed to drive would be counterproductive I think. I usually drive only 1500 miles a year versus 12,000 about 20 years ago and I think my errors may be in part due to lack of practice.

Fortunately MickF and I recognise what is happening to us and make allowances and adjustments for aging. The issue is with those who just press on regardless.

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5214
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Duke In Rollover

Postby Tangled Metal » 18 Jan 2019, 8:22am

Mick F wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Me at 60 have noticed my reactions are slower than they used to be, I cant react quickly enough physically.
Me too, but it's come to me a little later.
66 now, and it's been in the past year that I noticed. I'm driving more gently and peacefully these days, out of being relaxed but also noticing that I'm slowing down in all things these days.

Driving in the dark is becoming more difficult, where in the past, I used to much prefer it.

I assume your slowing down is self regulation. Are you self regulating for night driving / driving in the dark?

I think the argument for older drivers being safe is the way they self regulate their driving (slow down, only drive in quiet times outside of peak traffic, etc). Probably true up to a point. If they slow down excessively that's less about self regulation and more about not being safe to drive IMHO. It's about finding that switch over and taking the hard decision.

I'm sure there's going to be a point where a cyclist decides they're too old to ride. Fortunately with ebikes that time has the capability to be put back but it is still likely to happen at some point.

pwa
Posts: 9589
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Duke In Rollover

Postby pwa » 18 Jan 2019, 8:26am

By now the police will not even have finished typing up their site reports so it is a bit early to be attributing blame, but I suppose there is an obvious suspected cause of the accident, namely a car pulling out at the wrong time. It is inevitable that we think that likely. And as we have all had experience of drivers who are no longer fit to drive because of age, it is natural that we think the Duke's extreme age may have had a role to play.

Nobody has been seriously hurt, but that must be down to luck and modern car design. So maybe this event will come to be seen as a turning point, when public opinion began to demand that elderly drivers be assessed on a regular basis, for the sake of themselves and other road users.

My next door neighbour is as old as the Duke and he is still driving. He drives slowly, but he drove slowly when I first knew him 20 years ago. His driving still looks safe and controlled and I have no worries about him so far. So I don't think all drivers over a certain age are rubbish. But some do become rubbish with age, very often driving in spite of their families telling them to stop.

tatanab
Posts: 3702
Joined: 8 Feb 2007, 12:37pm

Re: Duke In Rollover

Postby tatanab » 18 Jan 2019, 8:34am

pwa wrote: it is a bit early to be attributing blame, but I suppose there is an obvious suspected cause of the accident, namely a car pulling out at the wrong time.
Illustration from a newspaper report
Image Attachments
8672294-6604071-image-m-35_1547768920280.jpg

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5214
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Duke In Rollover

Postby Tangled Metal » 18 Jan 2019, 8:38am

The Duke is probably one of the last few still driving having never taken a driving test. My grandfather was like that having got his American licence before testing and having got it comverted to a UK licence under whatever equivalency regulations were in place at the time.

I believe the driving test came in during the 30s but after that date if you learnt to drive in the armed services you got your licence without taking a test for a bit later.

It also raises the question about driving test changes. How many people driving legally now having never taken the theory exam or doing a hazard perception test? How many driving having never been tested on common manoeuvres like parallel parking (iirc that came in after I took my test). My point being nobody has tested me as thoroughly as the younger generation are being tested like they are now. I passed my test 4 months after turning 17 (would have been 1-2 months after but there was a really bad winter so all testing stopped at my test centre for a month or so and a backlog took ages to catch up). Does that mean anything? Should I be re-tested under current test standards?

pwa
Posts: 9589
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Duke In Rollover

Postby pwa » 18 Jan 2019, 8:39am

In the interest of fairness we must keep open the possibility that the other car may have been travelling too fast. It is a possibility.

Oldjohnw
Posts: 1239
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Duke In Rollover

Postby Oldjohnw » 18 Jan 2019, 8:40am

I'm 70 this year. About 8 years ago I started limiting my driving, not because I really felt I was falling (although I would probably be the last person to make a proper judgement) but because I was finding driving too stressful - possibly because I was failing!

I use the train as often as practical and try to avoid driving in the dark save in my immediate neighbourhood when attending something in the evening. My main problem is my eyes (vitreous detachment).

It does mean that when visiting my daughter if I use the car we have to have an overnight stay if the journey is in the winter.

I might add that on two occasions my car has been written off in an accident, each time when a driver has driven straight out of a sideroad into me, having been dazzled by the sun. Both drivers were in their 20s.
Last edited by Oldjohnw on 18 Jan 2019, 8:43am, edited 1 time in total.
John

Cycling and recycling