Duke In Rollover

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roubaixtuesday
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Re: Duke In Rollover

Post by roubaixtuesday »

661-Pete wrote:So - if it does turn out that PtG is not really quite fit enough to drive, who's to convince him? E2R? Or one of the kids - or grandkids? Perhaps he has a male friend of about his age who could do the persuading, sort of 'man-to-man' stuff...


This is why compulsory retesting should be required.*

I believe that's actually CUK policy.

*If it were me, it would be risk related: every one year to start with, dependent on performance in last test, never longer than five years, and more frequently post say 75 or so. Also compulsory continuous retraining eg driver awareness course annually.
roubaixtuesday
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Re: Duke In Rollover

Post by roubaixtuesday »

Extract from CUK briefing

The Government should seriously consider introducing formal re-tests for older drivers. The age at which the first re-test should be taken, and the frequency of subsequent re-tests, should be decided on the basis of evidence (i.e. on when reaction and hazard perception skills typically start declining for older age groups).


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pwa
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Re: Duke In Rollover

Post by pwa »

mercalia wrote:would he ever be prosecuted? oh 5 points on your licence duke. I cant believe that some one that old has all his wits both mental and physical, if he has then I want some of what he has been on

One of my neighbours is 97, he takes a walk to the shop every morning to get his paper, even in the rain. He is a bit deaf now but apart from that he is good for a conversation and has his wits about him. He is still driving and still looks competent at it. So not all 97 year olds are unfit to drive. But I imagine a high percentage are.
thirdcrank
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Re: Duke In Rollover

Post by thirdcrank »

I'll declare an interest: I'm 74. (Last eyesight test by optician Nov 2018)

If there's money available for a lot of driver training and testing, I can't help feeling it might be more cost-effective on younger groups.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Duke In Rollover

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
Retests on capability, periodically every 3-5 years and if age is a factor (scientific) then a cut off point maybe.
If unexperienced then (not many road miles since test) then some allowance unless shown to be unsuitable and risk to others.
Retraining?

Some experienced drivers even with age might be better than your (anyone) mother.
My mother was atrocious, ended after she wrote off her car into side of bus after losing control in a skid.

Sun light is mentioned many times, a case in the past a driver killed a child who was wearing a bright yellow jacket, judge said driver could not of seen cyclist as the lowness of the sun and colour of clothing...........................

Reactions - I noticed when I was in my thirties I had a three month period off a motorcycle and when I returned to riding I was not as sharp, made no errors as such but noticed that I timed moments not so well, due probably to the speed you could drive at on such a machine, Only equalled by very few expensive cars.

My father WW2 had a little red book, his test was short and lasted seconds IIRC, licenced to drive tanks of course.
My test passed after one lesson, but had driven the length of the country on holiday as a learner, and used to ride 12000 miles a year on two wheels so it was quite simple.

Tests on Capability would remove many what we can dangerous drivers, you know the ones you sit next to where you cant wait to get out and your legs ache thru trying to make holes in the passenger footwell :lol:

P.S. Local women killed outright when a driver ploughed into a shop window................in court he had history of incapability and was suggested to surrender licence to escape prosecution, which he did.......................
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Cunobelin
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Re: Duke In Rollover

Post by Cunobelin »

roubaixtuesday wrote:
661-Pete wrote:So - if it does turn out that PtG is not really quite fit enough to drive, who's to convince him? E2R? Or one of the kids - or grandkids? Perhaps he has a male friend of about his age who could do the persuading, sort of 'man-to-man' stuff...


This is why compulsory retesting should be required.*

I believe that's actually CUK policy.

*If it were me, it would be risk related: every one year to start with, dependent on performance in last test, never longer than five years, and more frequently post say 75 or so. Also compulsory continuous retraining eg driver awareness course annually.



Given the much, much larger number of 16-25 year olds having accidents, 40 - 50 year olds being the most common transgressors in speeding, tailgating etc, the question is once again, why the hysteria with retesting just one small group?


If it is to be risk related, then the biggest risk group is drivers between 16-25 so is it still every one year to start with for this group, dependent on performance in last test.
(Could we also add in the increased propensity for other vehicle offences such as illegal modification of the vehicle, nuisance, noise and antisocial behaviour into the mix)

Would their just be the 16-25 year olds who repeat the test at intervals never longer than five years?

Or given the demographics, should the test be more or less frequent more frequently under say 21 or so.

Also compulsory continuous retraining eg driver awareness course annually.
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Paulatic
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Re: Duke In Rollover

Post by Paulatic »

pwa wrote:News reports say the council may authorise safety measures on that road later today. Given this remarkable promptness, should we consider asking the Duke to come and have accidents on other roads that concern us?

I hope you realise it has been on the Council’s agenda for sometime. Proposals have been lowering the speed limit and average speed cameras.
I remember cycling on that bit around 5 years ago and traffic was so heavy and slow it was almost quicker by bike.
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pwa
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Re: Duke In Rollover

Post by pwa »

Paulatic wrote:
pwa wrote:News reports say the council may authorise safety measures on that road later today. Given this remarkable promptness, should we consider asking the Duke to come and have accidents on other roads that concern us?

I hope you realise it has been on the Council’s agenda for sometime. Proposals have been lowering the speed limit and average speed cameras.
I remember cycling on that bit around 5 years ago and traffic was so heavy and slow it was almost quicker by bike.

Yes I did see that they had been working on ideas for this road since 2015, but it would be an astonishing coincidence if decisions were made about it today.

I have driven on roads in that area and I remember feeling that drivers there were very aggressive, doing a lot of tailgating if you didn't share their relaxed attitude to road safety.
Last edited by pwa on 18 Jan 2019, 10:43am, edited 1 time in total.
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Cunobelin
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Re: Duke In Rollover

Post by Cunobelin »

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Retests on capability, periodically every 3-5 years and if age is a factor (scientific) then a cut off point maybe.
If unexperienced then (not many road miles since test) then some allowance unless shown to be unsuitable and risk to others.
Retraining?


Age IS a factor, 16-25 year olds are proven to be the biggest single risk group, they are also by definition inexperienced, with a high likelihood of an accident within 6 months of passing the test..... The argument is ar more robust for the younger driver rather then the older!

Some experienced drivers even with age might be better than your (anyone) mother.
My mother was atrocious, ended after she wrote off her car into side of bus after losing control in a skid.


I know of many younger drivers who have "experience" yet commonly lose control and hit other vehicles, again a substantial win for testing younger drivers

Sun light is mentioned many times, a case in the past a driver killed a child who was wearing a bright yellow jacket, judge said driver could not of seen cyclist as the lowness of the sun and colour of clothing...........................


Again not associated with just older drivers.....Figures (AA) show that across the UK in 2015, there were 2,575 road collisions where sun dazzle was a contributory factor. This low sun is also behind 20-25 fatal crashes and has been more deadly as cause of road deaths than rain, sleet, snow and fog in three of the past five years.

Once again the logical conclusion:

1. IF you are looking at the higher risk groups then all this retesting should be applied to the 16-25 year olds
2. OR more logically ALL drivers?
3. All the arguments biased against older drivers are consistently stronger for the younger age group
reohn2
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Re: Duke In Rollover

Post by reohn2 »

Gravity Man wrote:Glad to hear that Phil the Greek has escaped relatively unscathed from his contretemps with a Kia.

As regards the 'problem' of increasing numbers of older drivers -

If, because of the ever increasing performance and speed of cars and the acknowledged decline in age-related speed and performance (reaction times) of elderly drivers it can be inferred that there has become an increased danger to the general public, both motorised and pedestrianised, there might be a case for limiting the amount of 'exposure' to the danger by reducing the number of miles driven by the persons in that age group.

The reduction in driving miles could either be voluntarily self-imposed 'for the good of all' -- but that would rely on a driver's willingness to accept that they indeed do have an age-related reduction in their driving ability that is likely to increase the chances of accidents and incidents, and how likely is that ? -- or by direct governmental intervention in the form of laws, and a charge-per-mile or 'mileage tax'.

The first idea would probably be unworkable and the second would probably be wildly unpopular but so are a lot of other things ... and when did unworkability or unpopularity ever make any difference to government ?

Does anyone have any other ideas ?

What are we to do with the 17 to 25 year olds who cause the most RTC's?
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pwa
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Re: Duke In Rollover

Post by pwa »

I feel that a normal "good" driver will have a driving life that starts off with a higher risk period of a few years just after passing their test, followed by many years of competence, ending with, hopefully, a decision that competence is waning and driving has to stop. When that happens varies from person to person. A minority seem to go on beyond that point, and the fact that a younger age group is even more dodgy does not mean there isn't an issue.
thirdcrank
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Re: Duke In Rollover

Post by thirdcrank »

Prior to the foundation of the CPS, anybody emerging from a side road and involved in a collision would have been prosecuted for "due care" with a second charge of failing to conform with whatever sign was at the junction. Or at least, that's how it was round here. We've now reached the point where the police need some persuading to attend a crash. This type of thing happens all the time now and unless any injuries are truly serious, it often goes unrecorded and will only be reported in the media if there's something newsworthy. Two things have made this newsworthy.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Duke In Rollover

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
I agree with most of what you said.
So capability maybe the one to test ALL drivers on.
I was not knocking old age.

You gain experience with just doing it, so OK limit / retest / ban worst offenders.

I don't believe today with all our advanced tech we cannot come up with a statistical way to remove those who should never drive!

Simply saying that you need your car for a meeting should never come up as mitigation.

It would be easy to place a tracker in an offenders car to see if they learn by their shortcoming, if not ban!
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Cunobelin
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Re: Duke In Rollover

Post by Cunobelin »

roubaixtuesday wrote:I made no conjecture as to the cause of the accident.

The points hold regardless.

If anyone wishes to drive on public roads at that age, they should be subject to frequent testing.

It's not credible that many people at that age are fit to drive. If they they are, fine, but they should have to prove it.


Does that also apply to 16-25 year olds?
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Duke In Rollover

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
I think we can apply that to high risk groups, but age is not always a factor.
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