NT National Trust going 'downmarket'?

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Patrickpioneer
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Re: NT National Trust going 'downmarket'?

Postby Patrickpioneer » 29 Jan 2019, 9:31am

kwackers wrote:
NUKe wrote:Never seen the attraction of seeing how the aristocracy lived, it was always at the expense of the poor, or the backs of slaves. Give me a folk museum or an industrial site any day.

And our industrial heritage was built on?.. :wink:


Strange isn't it how we view things, I tend to look at industrial heritage sites thinking they have sanitized the past and forgotten how short and blooming hard peoples lives where back then
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Tangled Metal
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Re: NT National Trust going 'downmarket'?

Postby Tangled Metal » 29 Jan 2019, 3:34pm

Don't forget slavery is alive and surprisingly common even in the UK today. A guy was found not too far away. He'd been a slave in Kendal / Staveley area for something like 12 years. He got found last quarter of 2018.

It may be outlawed but it's still around. If you get a job done on your house and one of the workers look a bit skinny and nervous... Well you never know do you?

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NUKe
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Re: NT National Trust going 'downmarket'?

Postby NUKe » 29 Jan 2019, 9:46pm

kwackers wrote:
NUKe wrote:Never seen the attraction of seeing how the aristocracy lived, it was always at the expense of the poor, or the backs of slaves. Give me a folk museum or an industrial site any day.

And our industrial heritage was built on?.. :wink:

Yes thought that even as I was typing but at least we share in the wealth now.
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kwackers
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Re: NT National Trust going 'downmarket'?

Postby kwackers » 30 Jan 2019, 8:56am

NUKe wrote:Yes thought that even as I was typing but at least we share in the wealth now.

And us plebs get to tramp around the grand houses they built and enjoy the gardens after most were forced to sell.
Good job Jenkins and his blunderbuss aren't around!

I enjoy all aspects of the stuff, whether it was a mill built by a toff, a Victorian hospital, prison, workhouse or an ex-toffs house.
My only 'regret' is that despite paying the annual fee I've never had much chance to look - and the places I have been too haven't be NT properties.

Tangled Metal
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Re: NT National Trust going 'downmarket'?

Postby Tangled Metal » 30 Jan 2019, 9:10am

It's interesting how inheritance tax over the years have led to paper rich people being forced to hand over their house to the tax man / NT. A blessed relief being forced into that I reckon. I mean you can blame the previous generation for not making sufficient provision to prevent it. You get out from under the yoke of maintaining a listed money sink and can claim it's not your fault.

The question I have is what value is there in having the historical owners still living in these big, old houses? Some get to stay on on private apartments. Having the family member with its history in their blood can probably make a good tour guide.

dodger
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Re: NT National Trust going 'downmarket'?

Postby dodger » 31 Jan 2019, 12:03pm

Tangled Metal wrote:It's interesting how inheritance tax over the years have led to paper rich people being forced to hand over their house to the tax man / NT. A blessed relief being forced into that I reckon. I mean you can blame the previous generation for not making sufficient provision to prevent it. You get out from under the yoke of maintaining a listed money sink and can claim it's not your fault.

The question I have is what value is there in having the historical owners still living in these big, old houses? Some get to stay on on private apartments. Having the family member with its history in their blood can probably make a good tour guide.


I love the outdoors part of NT properties, such as the coastline, where the NT works hard to maintain them, and also the servants' quarters in big houses. That's where I reckon my place would have been! Kitchen gardens are also interesting, especially when you remember that households had to be fed all year from the food produced in them.
What I don't like is the 17th/18th/19th Century bling of big houses; a bit like those multi-millionaire pads owned by Russian oligarchs today.
I also question how appropriate it is for former owners to continue to live in houses "donated" to the NT, enjoying an enviable lifestyle, whilst all the costs are picked up by members. Particularly so where there is severe restriction on opening hours and parts of the houses open to the public. Antony House in S E Cornwall is a place in point.

Tangled Metal
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Re: NT National Trust going 'downmarket'?

Postby Tangled Metal » 31 Jan 2019, 12:19pm

There's one near us, sizergh Castle. The family live in apartments in the least significant part of the house. The best rooms are on show with good, long opening times. There's been a lot of developments there to make it visitor friendly. I can recommend it strongly. They have special events too that you might like. Such as green wood working days. People demonstrating their craft such as bowmaker, woodturner, etc.

Personally it depends on the way it was set up. Usually the family moves into a small part of the house, even a cottage on the estate in cases. Opening times vary but then even places with no previous owners present can have short opening times too. It can be simply down to what visitor numbers can support I guess. Afterall every NT premises needs staff to be paid if they are to be opened at all. The property needs to support and generate profit to stay open.

As far as land under NT care I think they mostly do a very good job. But I have heard of cases they've screwed up too. Overall their stewardship of land has been very good over the years. Although they are about keeping land in aspic so it will always be the same for other generations. That is good in many cases but can be a mistake in others.

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Re: NT National Trust going 'downmarket'?

Postby brynpoeth » 25 May 2019, 7:14am

The church of England used to be the conservative party at prayer, what is the NT?
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pete75
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Re: NT National Trust going 'downmarket'?

Postby pete75 » 25 May 2019, 7:32am

brynpoeth wrote:I like the national trust, it started by acquiring Dinas Oleu, the Citadel of Light, above Abermawddach, but I thought it was rather upper-class, lots of stately homes and high prices, good parking for vehicles, nice tearooms and gift shops but many properties otherwise hard to reach

Plenty of stately homes are not kept by the NT, mind, many are private or run by other organisations

Now the Guardian reports that the NT is promoting places of conflict and protest, Tolpuddle Martyrs, Peterloo Massacre

Plus One?


Hmmm. You're either a candidate for the Tory leadership or a petty snob - same thing really I suppose.

pete75
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Re: NT National Trust going 'downmarket'?

Postby pete75 » 25 May 2019, 7:35am

kwackers wrote:
NUKe wrote:Never seen the attraction of seeing how the aristocracy lived, it was always at the expense of the poor, or the backs of slaves. Give me a folk museum or an industrial site any day.

And our industrial heritage was built on?.. :wink:


Ress-Mogg has recently published a book on the Victorians. Parises them to the high heavens. Strangely no mention of the poverty and poor living conditions suffered by much of the population.

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Re: NT National Trust going 'downmarket'?

Postby DaveReading » 25 May 2019, 8:29am

pete75 wrote:Rees-Mogg has recently published a book on the Victorians. Parises them to the high heavens. Strangely no mention of the poverty and poor living conditions suffered by much of the population.

From the Sunday Times' review of JR-M's book:

"Before I started, the prospect of Rees-Mogg in Downing Street struck me as a ridiculous idea, but if this is what it takes to stop him writing another book, then I think we should seriously consider paying the price."

peetee
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Re: NT National Trust going 'downmarket'?

Postby peetee » 25 May 2019, 1:42pm

Perhaps someone could enlighten me with regard to something I remember hearing on the radio, that being that the National Trust owns the land that a large proportion of English Heritage attractions sit on. For some while before this I had always struggled with the disparity between these two organisations and resented paying full membership for both given that visits to anything were few and far between (by circumstance rather than choice). The news of the link just made my blood boil and I wonder now, a few years later, how true that is?
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Oldjohnw
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Re: NT National Trust going 'downmarket'?

Postby Oldjohnw » 25 May 2019, 6:12pm

There are one or two places of shared ownership.

The NT always was and is a private charity. EH was originally an executive arm of government charged with looking after ancient monuments and listings, but in order to save money was recently hived off to become Historic England and English Heritage, now a trust depending on membership and trading, just like the NT.

Membership is voluntary so no need for boiling blood. Entirely your choice.
Last edited by Oldjohnw on 26 May 2019, 7:30am, edited 1 time in total.
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sjs
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Re: NT National Trust going 'downmarket'?

Postby sjs » 25 May 2019, 8:12pm

Oldjohnw wrote:There are one or two places of shar ownership.

The NT always was and is a private charity. EH was originally an executive arm of government charged with looking after ancient monuments and listings, but in order to save money was recently hived off to become Historic England and English Heritage, now a trust depending on membership and trading, just like the NT.

Membership is voluntary so no need for boiling blood. Entirely your choice.



No blood-boiling, but while most EH things are fairly ancient, ruined castles and stuff like that, there are some properties that fit the NT mould, such as Audley End in Essex.