Slowing motor traffic - press the button!

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.

Do you press the button to stop speeding crime?

Poll ended at 7 Mar 2019, 6:15pm

Yes, if I have time several times
2
5%
Yes, anything reducing speed, +1!
1
3%
Sometimes
1
3%
Only if I want to cross
16
42%
Not occurred to me, shall in future
1
3%
No, that is interfering
0
No votes
No, that is childish
13
34%
No, afraid to annoy drivers
0
No votes
No, surely that is illegal/illogical
3
8%
I fight speeding in other ways: e.g.:
1
3%
 
Total votes: 38

Bonefishblues
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Re: Slowing motor traffic - press the button!

Postby Bonefishblues » 7 Feb 2019, 8:05pm

brynpoeth wrote:
paddler wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:No! Where I live a lot of people cycle, I do not want more, like in Kopenhagen
Many of the journeys made buy car no are unnecessary or could be made by train

One often hears experts calling for more cycling but they mean (I fear) that motorists upgrade to cycling, right?
I would settle for less motor traffic full stop
I am lucky mind, out of town I can cycle for hours and hardly see a soul. Not many PoBs manage to get more than 15 km from home

No, I do not want more cycling! Alternative views, friendly argument, thread drift welcome :)


Not sure why you wouldn't want more cycling?
..

More cycling is more traffic, some cyclists do not always obey the law
I would settle for less motor traffic, period

Mr bonefish is obviously wrong again in asserting we all want more motorists upgrading to cycling, he could never know that. Certainly not all, not every single one! Statements using 'all' are not to be trusted
More walking might be ok I think, very few people walk now, but please not more cycling! Especially not TDC

Planting to start a poll on 'more cycling' soon :wink:

My mistake, almost all, with the notable exception of you :lol:

I am once again obliged.

brynpoeth
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Re: Slowing motor traffic - press the button!

Postby brynpoeth » 7 Feb 2019, 8:43pm

paddler wrote:One of our neighbours is a teacher at the primary school, which is just under half a mile away. She always drives. She is overweight.

To say nothing of the state of the motor, poor thing :?
Does she take it for a decently journey occasionally to charge the battery at least? :wink:
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paddler
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Re: Slowing motor traffic - press the button!

Postby paddler » 7 Feb 2019, 8:47pm

brynpoeth wrote:
paddler wrote:One of our neighbours is a teacher at the primary school, which is just under half a mile away. She always drives. She is overweight.

To say nothing of the state of the motor, poor thing :?
Does she take it for a decently journey occasionally to charge the battery at least? :wink:


Dunno, shopping and normal teachery things I suppose. :D

brynpoeth
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Re: Slowing motor traffic - press the button!

Postby brynpoeth » 8 Feb 2019, 5:41am

Bonefishblues wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:
paddler wrote:
Not sure why you wouldn't want more cycling?
..

..
My mistake, almost all, with the notable exception of you :lol:

I am once again obliged.

Please, the obligation is all mine, I offer thanks to the Right Honourable Gentleman
I hope there is a lot of opposition here to TDC, at least :wink:
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rfryer
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Re: Slowing motor traffic - press the button!

Postby rfryer » 8 Feb 2019, 6:27am

brynpoeth wrote:I suspect I have many silent supporters who don't bother posting for fear of being criticised

And what's your explanation for why these silent supporters won't show their support in the anonymous poll?

I believe you have no silent supporters, but I'm truly curious about whether you keep this thread going because
a) You believe you are altruistically taking flack for representing a silent body of opinion,
b) You believe that by persisting you can convince people, or
c) You enjoy being the centre of attention, motivated by getting reactions to your posts.

brynpoeth
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Re: Slowing motor traffic - press the button!

Postby brynpoeth » 8 Feb 2019, 5:10pm

rfryer wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:I suspect I have many silent supporters who don't bother posting for fear of being criticised

And what's your explanation for why these silent supporters won't show their support in the anonymous poll?

I believe you have no silent supporters, but I'm truly curious about whether you keep this thread going because
a) You believe you are altruistically taking flack for representing a silent body of opinion,
b) You believe that by persisting you can convince people, or
c) You enjoy being the centre of attention, motivated by getting reactions to your posts.

Maybe they do not believe the poll is anonymous, is anything on the www confidential? Maybe they just dislike strong argument, I try not to 'provoke' but I am glad to promote discussion and controversy, opinion-forming, sometimes I even change my opinion
Maybe they already press buttons, perhaps my idea is not as new as I thought
a + b are about right, c certainly not
There has been some nasty criticism that that was deleted, I don't mind humorous criticism about juvenility and my mental age
I am not keeping this going alone, fortunately the nastiness has not prompted the mods to delete it
I am an amateur expert on road danger, got dozens of books about it, I think I know what I am writing about

Yes, I do believe if lots of us get the habit of pressing the buttons we can make a big difference, I believe this more strongly than before

Of course I read the Guardian, some years ago it published a couple of my articles about cycling and road danger

I love cycling first, plus walking, and am a very experienced driver

The answer 'not occurred to me, shall in future' has one vote so far, so I have won at least one 'convert', that is worth all the trouble

Really can't understand the criticism, especially nastiness, as noted before, of my suggestion to 'resist the bullies'
Maybe I am not as typical among fora users as I thought :wink:
..
I believe I am a visionary, like Graeme Obree. Soon "accidental" deaths and injuries shall fall dramatically (experts shall be puzzling over the cause), when the SiMa silent majority takes up my suggestion, no need even for a majority, 5% would make a big difference
Last edited by brynpoeth on 3 Mar 2019, 6:20pm, edited 1 time in total.
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brynpoeth
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Re: Slowing motor traffic - press the button!

Postby brynpoeth » 10 Feb 2019, 7:39am

RickH wrote:
merseymouth wrote:Hi All, Bring back the Leslie Hoare Belisha Memorials, the real safety option.
Proper "Pedestrian Crossings" not "Pedestrian Stoppers"!
Get rid of the others in the menagerie. IGICB MM

* Less motor traffic means less pollution, less selfishness.

There a couple of locations I've been past - 1 in Bolton & 1 in Chester - where they've put in new zebra crossings quite recently.

Don't like zebra crossings at all, I do not trust motards to stop, engage neutral, apply the handbrake and wait till I am over
Better maybe to have refuges in the middle so one may wait for a gap and avoid communicating with the Knights of the Road
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Cugel
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Re: Slowing motor traffic - press the button!

Postby Cugel » 10 Feb 2019, 10:08am

brynpoeth wrote:
RickH wrote:
merseymouth wrote:Hi All, Bring back the Leslie Hoare Belisha Memorials, the real safety option.
Proper "Pedestrian Crossings" not "Pedestrian Stoppers"!
Get rid of the others in the menagerie. IGICB MM

* Less motor traffic means less pollution, less selfishness.

There a couple of locations I've been past - 1 in Bolton & 1 in Chester - where they've put in new zebra crossings quite recently.

Don't like zebra crossings at all, I do not trust motards to stop, engage neutral, apply the handbrake and wait till I am over
Better maybe to have refuges in the middle so one may wait for a gap and avoid communicating with the Knights of the Road


There's a very good reason for preferring the zebra crossing to other forms of crossing. The zebra prioritises pedestrians over motorists whilst all the other sort prioritise the motorist. I feel it a much better arrangement for pedestrians to be able to keep on the move without impediment whilst motorists must wait. After all, the motorists have a built-in weather-shelter and can go from A to B quicker (unless they live in a car-jammed city, that is).

Of course, the zebra rule giving precedent to pedestrians would need to be enforced vigorously, with spy cameras and huge fines/bans for law-breaking motorists. (I will be applying to be a magistrate of the new motorist-disciplining type).

But the better answer would be to do away with the motor car, to a large extent. It's possible, since the industrialised working world did without motorcars in any significant numbers only a few decades ago. Most people then travelled about on buses, trains, bicycles and trams. Few travelled millions of miles for no real purpose, as in "attending a meeting in London" or other pointless exercises enabled by the car.

It would mean a society operating in a less frantic and thrusting manner. Most objections to it are that "it will suppress growth". That would be another huge plus though, wouldn't it? Perhaps the population would also be less obese? Lethal pollution in the cities would be greatly reduced. As would so-called RTAs.... In fact, the benefits of a car-scarce society would be immense.

Cugel

brynpoeth
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Re: Slowing motor traffic - press the button!

Postby brynpoeth » 10 Feb 2019, 10:13am

That's not gobbledygook, that's wisdom!
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brynpoeth
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Re: Slowing motor traffic - press the button!

Postby brynpoeth » 13 Feb 2019, 5:38am

Pressing the button is not my only contribution to the Fight for Safety

Went cycling in the country Sunday, climbed off many times to remove twigs, branches, debris from the cycleway, did the same yesterday walking in the woods, at lunchtime I do the same although the cycleway near work is in quite good condition

When driving I am glad to stop if a 'kidult' has pressed the button, I really do stop, apply the handbrake, engage neutral
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Oldjohnw
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Re: Slowing motor traffic - press the button!

Postby Oldjohnw » 13 Feb 2019, 8:02am

Why move twigs and branches when walking in the woods?
John

Cycling and recycling

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Slowing motor traffic - press the button!

Postby PDQ Mobile » 13 Feb 2019, 10:46am

Quote cugel
"Of course, the zebra rule giving precedent to pedestrians would need to be enforced vigorously, with spy cameras and huge fines/bans for law-breaking motorists. (I will be applying to be a magistrate of the new motorist-disciplining type)."


Switzerland has such a rule.
A motorist must stop for any pedestrian waiting to cross. It is enforced pretty strictly and was implemented from an earlier "give priority to peds " type rule about 10 years ago.
The onus is always on the driver.
It is not a very good rule in my view.

Even a single car is expected to stop for a single pedestrian closely approaching the crossing.
As a driver one has to be constantly watching for ped activity in the crossing vicinity- not such a bad thing but a distraction at times from the melee of urban traffic, on a crossing close to a roundabout for example.
People on busy pavements sometimes do stop and merely chat in the area adjacent to crossings and it leads to confusion.
It has also led to peds merely approaching crossings and walking straight out into the road, not wise, not healthy, any driver can be momentarily distracted.
Pedestrian injuries have not been reduced by the legislation.AFAIK.

Far better in my view is the courtesy "give way to peds" system that existed for so long here in the UK.
A driver should give way to a pedestrian standing at the zebra crossing. The ped should look at the approaching traffic as a signal of a desire to cross.
The driver should not be forced to stop overly quickly but use a common sense judgement, so if a lone car approaching a crossing is so close to said crossing it is better for the car to proceed and the ped to cross afterwards on a clear road.
Now I hear you all laughing and saying "common sense from a UK motorist, huh" but is is my long experience the large majority are very considerate to peds.

It must be said I do not live in a big city, though in really intense traffic and pedestrian densities light controlled mechanisms become pretty essential.

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mjr
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Re: Slowing motor traffic - press the button!

Postby mjr » 13 Feb 2019, 11:19am

Oldjohnw wrote:Why move twigs and branches when walking in the woods?

Because unless there's novel wildlife in there, the woods may be deemed to have a low "amenity value" if few people are walking in them (evidenced by the paths not being kept clear) and then clearance and building gets approved. I think it's just happened to https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/493919883
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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mjr
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Re: Slowing motor traffic - press the button!

Postby mjr » 13 Feb 2019, 11:28am

Cugel wrote:There's a very good reason for preferring the zebra crossing to other forms of crossing. The zebra prioritises pedestrians over motorists whilst all the other sort prioritise the motorist. I feel it a much better arrangement for pedestrians to be able to keep on the move without impediment whilst motorists must wait. After all, the motorists have a built-in weather-shelter and can go from A to B quicker (unless they live in a car-jammed city, that is).

There's no need for it to be so, though. We could start immediately reprogramming most crossings to show green for walkers until the approach sensors detect vehicles - repurposing those same approach sensors that are currently used to prevent the lights changing after a button press until there's a big gap in traffic! - and set a lower minimum time between crossing greens.

Or we could use wireless technology to put pushbuttons on the approaches further away from the lights so that the green man is showing by the time walkers arrive at it, but that would require more hardware.

We could even do like some countries do and have the lights switch at some times to constant flashing-amber to signify that zebra crossing rules apply, but that would require law changes.

Zebras are better because they can't be subverted as easily to prioritise motorists, but there's no unavoidable reason for pelicon/toucan/puffin lights to be as awful as they are.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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RickH
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Re: Slowing motor traffic - press the button!

Postby RickH » 13 Feb 2019, 11:41am

We came across another new, but not quite finished, zebra crossing (the lights hadn't been fitted on top of the poles so there were barriers preventing people using the crossing) in Chester last week. I thought the death knell had been sounded on zebras a few years back & they were in danger of becoming extinct but they seem to be making a comeback, at least in some places.