Jihadi Brides and their Children.

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pwa
Posts: 10536
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby pwa » 15 Feb 2019, 10:20am

I confess to being torn by this. On the one hand she was a minor when she left and her mistake was that of a child. And her unborn baby has no responsibility, no blame. But on the other hand she is an adult now and seems to still hold the same poisonous views, and her child could easily grow up with violent Jihad as its mission in life. Both could be a danger to men, women and children currently living in the UK. I could reluctantly accept her coming back to enjoy the health care and safety of a country she rejected and went to war with, but I would not care if she were left to rot where she is. But then there is the baby......

Bonefishblues
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Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Bonefishblues » 15 Feb 2019, 10:26am

If only she could snap out of it and say how very sorry she was, life would be simpler (not a dig at you, pwa, btw)

mercalia
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Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby mercalia » 15 Feb 2019, 11:16am

what about the dutch husband? dont want him here

pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby pwa » 15 Feb 2019, 11:41am

Bonefishblues wrote:If only she could snap out of it and say how very sorry she was, life would be simpler (not a dig at you, pwa, btw)

I agree with that sentiment. If only she had grown out of it.

philvantwo
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Joined: 8 Dec 2012, 6:08pm

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby philvantwo » 15 Feb 2019, 12:15pm

From the ISIS state to the welfare state....... England is mine and it owes me a living.
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Bonefishblues
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Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Bonefishblues » 15 Feb 2019, 12:17pm

pwa wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:If only she could snap out of it and say how very sorry she was, life would be simpler (not a dig at you, pwa, btw)

I agree with that sentiment. If only she had grown out of it.

Folorn hope at the moment - radicalised by the age of 15 such that she abandoned everything to become a Jihadi Bride, so-called. Seen, and been surrounded by the most extreme brutality and hardline ideology during the ensuing 3 years.

Yep, might take a while, how could it not?

reohn2
Posts: 36668
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby reohn2 » 15 Feb 2019, 2:48pm

Bonefishblues wrote:
pwa wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:Folorn hope at the moment - radicalised by the age of 15 such that she abandoned everything to become a Jihadi Bride, so-called. Seen, and been surrounded by the most extreme brutality and hardline ideology during the ensuing 3 years.

Yep, might take a while, how could it not?

Quite!
She may even turn it all around and become a model citizen,but if society is willing to write her off at 19 what hope for society?
Some would say we can't afford to take the risk,whilst others may say we can't afford not to.
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Ben@Forest
Posts: 1995
Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 5:58pm

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Ben@Forest » 15 Feb 2019, 3:02pm

Bonefishblues wrote:Folorn hope at the moment - radicalised by the age of 15 such that she abandoned everything to become a Jihadi Bride, so-called. Seen, and been surrounded by the most extreme brutality and hardline ideology during the ensuing 3 years.

Yep, might take a while, how could it not?


If she gets back l can see a future newspaper serialisation and even a book deal, then film rights. At least if she is imprisoned she'll not be allowed to profit from the crime here. I was going to write she could profit from it in the States but it's likely she'll only ever be allowed in wearing handcuffs.

It would be ironic if her experiences made her richer than most girls from Bethnal Green.

rualexander
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Contact:

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby rualexander » 15 Feb 2019, 3:04pm

Tangled Metal wrote:It's not known if her citizenship has been removed. Some probably had that but it's not made public who has had their citizenship removed......


Unless she is a citizen of another country also, its not possible for her British citizenship to be removed, its illegal under international law to render a person stateless. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47248555

dodger
Posts: 636
Joined: 28 Jan 2007, 9:33pm
Location: East Cornwall

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby dodger » 15 Feb 2019, 7:32pm

This girl was indoctrinated at the age of 15, maybe even led that way a bit before this.
Have you raised children? Do you know children? If so,you know that at 15 they are often naive and likely to see events in black and white terms. Their idealism is strong and can be manipulated. Given time and the right environment, the reality behind the radicalism influences they have been subject to can be overcome.
You can't reverse indoctrination by being harsh, especially against her innocent child.
She should be allowed back and subject to the law of the land, just the same as any other British citizen.
Perhaps the sensible route would be to keep a watchful eye on her actions until it is judged that she is no threat.

landsurfer
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby landsurfer » 15 Feb 2019, 8:48pm

dodger wrote:This girl was indoctrinated at the age of 15, maybe even led that way a bit before this.
Have you raised children? Do you know children? If so,you know that at 15 they are often naive and likely to see events in black and white terms. Their idealism is strong and can be manipulated. Given time and the right environment, the reality behind the radicalism influences they have been subject to can be overcome.
You can't reverse indoctrination by being harsh, especially against her innocent child.
She should be allowed back and subject to the law of the land, just the same as any other British citizen.
Perhaps the sensible route would be to keep a watchful eye on her actions until it is judged that she is no threat.


OR ..

She hates us ... our Kaffir society, our way of life, our goals and hopes.
She wants the NHS to stabilise her innocent little one so she can blend into her Islamic life.
She can then use the skills learned in the other place to kill us ...
Us .. those that are not her ...her beliefs, her ways....
Her victims ...

Welcome her back into your society not mine ...

Contact the the Peshmerga and other Kurdish Forces, and all those others who opposed the caliphate on the ground.

Ask them their opinion ......

We let the IRA run our education services .... share power at the highest level ... we never seem to learn about the evil ones amongst us ...
:( :(
It's just like that, it's just the way it is.
The road goes on forever.

Ben@Forest
Posts: 1995
Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 5:58pm

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Ben@Forest » 15 Feb 2019, 8:55pm

dodger wrote:She should be allowed back and subject to the law of the land, just the same as any other British citizen.


The government's line has not been that she can't come back (as someone has already said her British citizenship cannot be revoked). What has been said is that they will not devote resources to getting her back and that is understandable. Would it be sensible for either
diplomats or soldiers to be deployed on either a negotiated or military solution to getting her back and risking their lives?

IS is going down, the leadership will be fragmented, they have nothing to lose and safety of anyone can't be guaranteed.

mercalia
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Location: london South

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby mercalia » 15 Feb 2019, 9:11pm

she doesnt seem very bright to me going on record as having no regrets - hardly a viewpoint likely to have us tripping over our selves to welcome her back. Regarding she was groomed, she sought it for her self from the Internet ( I think was said some where?) so did it to her self, not as if she was locked up in a room with no light or food or water until she turned? She willingly went to Syria. She wasnt groomed in the way some young girls are groomed by dirty old men? And we are only hearing from her now as her dream land is collapsing in on its self

Bonefishblues
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Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Bonefishblues » 15 Feb 2019, 9:41pm

How does the process of grooming differ between those two, exactly?

Tangled Metal
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Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Tangled Metal » 15 Feb 2019, 10:47pm

First thing to realise is that she's in a Syrian refugee camp. She is probably not free to speak openly with her current views. As someone on radio 4 said, she's probably surrounded by isis sympathisers or members. Are you sure that it's possible to be completely honest in a phone interview from such a place?

Second point is about nationality being taken away. What is the implications of her joining the caliphate. Does that count as a nationality even if it's not widely recognised? Would that not allow the UK to withdraw nationality legally. Whatever the case, listening to radio 4 interviews recently about this matter the experts I've heard are not sure if she has UK nationality any more. As in they believe it is possible to withdraw nationality in her case.

Personally, she was radicalised in the UK, she's probably still a UK citizen, she's pregnant which means you'll force her outcome on her unborn child if you prevent or don't help her return and IMHO it's our nation's responsibility to deal with such cases in the UK.

De-radicalisation has some success in this country. There's systems in place to do this. There's a well known senior member of an anti-radicalisation, Muslim charity / organisation who was de-radicalised and now does that with others. He had been on TV many times over the years as an expert or as someone who's part of the solution. Apparently there's other people who have been highly radicalised but are now working to return the radicalised into our society by overturning the brainwashing.

So get get back, de-radicalise her or jail her then do it. Simply put solve our own problems not outsource it to others which must probably won't be as good as our systems.