Jihadi Brides and their Children.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby [XAP]Bob » 16 Feb 2019, 8:52am

pete75 wrote:Who cares. With all that's going on this is a trivial matter. If they've broken any laws prosecute them. Are they any different to women who knowingly married IRA, UVF or UDA killers?



She was 15.

Therefore considered not old enough to vote, marry, or do a myriad of other things. Part of the reasoning being that brains simply aren’t formed by then (they’re not formed for quite a while after them in fact).

Should she rather be treated as a victim of crime?
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reohn2
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby reohn2 » 16 Feb 2019, 9:27am

Tangled Metal wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:......... Makes us look like a weak country not the global player we like to claim........

Could this country appear anymore weak,stupid and messed up than it already does worldwide? :?

Brexit right? No comment!

Not just that but a myriad of other things,taxing of the rich and multinational companies or lack of it,the way the country's infrastructure is being run down due to lack of investment,a total lack of effective policing for all but the most highest profile offences,the demonisation of the poor and immigrant such as the Windrush generation and others,the lack of investment in social services,homelessness which goes hand in hand with a lack of social and affordable housing,the privatisation of services that have lead to a race to the bottom of provision,sales of weapons of mass destruction to despotic regemes around the world,need I go one?
And of course the mess and total mismanagement of Brexit.
The country is a shambles.
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Ben@Forest
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Ben@Forest » 16 Feb 2019, 10:13am

[XAP]Bob wrote:She was 15.

Therefore considered not old enough to vote, marry, or do a myriad of other things. Part of the reasoning being that brains simply aren’t formed by then (they’re not formed for quite a while after them in fact).

Should she rather be treated as a victim of crime?


Not being responsible enough at that age is a cogent argument for the voting age not being lowered to 16. In fact recently l listened to s good rationale of why 16 year olds deserved the vote more in 1969 than 2019. Mainly around most being in the workforce whereas they are mainly not now.

As to victim/perpetrator it's a hard ask. Fred West was abused as a child and his transition from abused to abuser and then murderer was seamless. Where do you draw the line?

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Cunobelin
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Cunobelin » 16 Feb 2019, 11:09am

I think it is really a really a moot point

She is over there, without the means to return to the UK

To that end we have precedents for refugees and British Citizens.

As far as I can see she does not "qualify" for any sort of military or humanitarian operation to bring her home.... which is what is now being "demanded"

If she makes it back then apply the law appropriately and fairly, but until she does arrive, it is all little irrelevant

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Cunobelin
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Cunobelin » 16 Feb 2019, 11:13am

As an aside there is an interesting story about another "British Jihadi Bride" who now lives in the states

Tainia Joya

An interesting story, make up your own minds about her and her opinions.

tatanab
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby tatanab » 16 Feb 2019, 11:21am

This is a serious question because I don't know. I am not stirring. Since she is married to a Dutchman, assuming the marriage is recognised legally, could she not throw herself on the mercies of the Netherlands? Although I imagine under EU open border rules she could then relocate to the UK anyway.

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Mick F
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Mick F » 16 Feb 2019, 11:39am

I wonder if the marriage would be recognised legally?

What are the rules?
Has she a marriage certificate?
Was the marriage lawful in Syria?
Mick F. Cornwall

mercalia
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby mercalia » 16 Feb 2019, 11:49am

Bonefishblues wrote:How does the process of grooming differ between those two, exactly?


here is one side of it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44359958

You can probably answer the other side by searching for those news reports of those muslim gangs in northern cities who groomed vulnerable white children in care /from broken homes, using drugs and physical control of them, passing them from one man to the next

Bonefishblues
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Bonefishblues » 16 Feb 2019, 11:56am

mercalia wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:How does the process of grooming differ between those two, exactly?


here is one side of it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44359958

You can probably answer the other side by searching for those news reports of those muslim gangs in northern cities who groomed vulnerable white children in care /from broken homes, using drugs and physical control of them, passing them from one man to the next

I see only similarities, not differences between the two.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Cunobelin » 16 Feb 2019, 1:37pm

Bonefishblues wrote:
mercalia wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:How does the process of grooming differ between those two, exactly?


here is one side of it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44359958

You can probably answer the other side by searching for those news reports of those muslim gangs in northern cities who groomed vulnerable white children in care /from broken homes, using drugs and physical control of them, passing them from one man to the next

I see only similarities, not differences between the two.


Same here.

A vulnerable person is a vulnerable person

Neither being vulnerable, nor exploiting the vulnerable are the territory of any particular nationality, group, religion of belief

dodger
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby dodger » 16 Feb 2019, 3:25pm

There are similarities between some comments on this forum and the hardline comments from Trump about his Mexican neighbours.
Try and remember how savvy you were at 15. She's still a relatively ignorant child/young person.
We are a so-called christian nation so let's see some christianity or just old-fashioned tolerance for the mistakes of a youth.
We're not looking at satan here or a hardened terrorist and we should be concerned about the child on its way into a difficult world.

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Cunobelin
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Cunobelin » 16 Feb 2019, 3:55pm

dodger wrote:There are similarities between some comments on this forum and the hardline comments from Trump about his Mexican neighbours.
Try and remember how savvy you were at 15. She's still a relatively ignorant child/young person.
We are a so-called christian nation so let's see some christianity or just old-fashioned tolerance for the mistakes of a youth.
We're not looking at satan here or a hardened terrorist and we should be concerned about the child on its way into a difficult world.


One of the reasons I posted the link to Tania Joya

You need to make up your own minds

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Cunobelin
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Cunobelin » 16 Feb 2019, 3:56pm

dodger wrote:There are similarities between some comments on this forum and the hardline comments from Trump about his Mexican neighbours.
Try and remember how savvy you were at 15. She's still a relatively ignorant child/young person.
We are a so-called christian nation so let's see some christianity or just old-fashioned tolerance for the mistakes of a youth.
We're not looking at satan here or a hardened terrorist and we should be concerned about the child on its way into a difficult world.



However.... should we be mounting an operation ( military or humanitarian) to bring her back as opposed to any of the Tens of Thousands of refugees in Syria

Ben@Forest
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Ben@Forest » 16 Feb 2019, 4:38pm

Cunobelin wrote:However.... should we be mounting an operation ( military or humanitarian) to bring her back as opposed to any of the Tens of Thousands of refugees in Syria


Exactly. She should be treated appropriately if she returns, she should certainly be 'allowed' back in as a British citizen. But there are probably at tens of British children or young adults who have been illegally snatched by former spouses and who are now abroad, and where the British parent is desperately trying to get more aid from the government to get them back. Why should this case be more deserving than any of those?

gbnz
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby gbnz » 16 Feb 2019, 4:44pm

dodger wrote:
We are a so-called christian nation so let's see some christianity or just old-fashioned tolerance .


Aren't christianity & tolerance very different concepts?