Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
Oldjohnw
Posts: 2040
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Oldjohnw » 20 Feb 2019, 3:53pm

merseymouth wrote:Hi Mercalia :) , Sorry to be pedantic. But shouldn't it be "Good Riddance" to her? But anyway, she wouldn't be a "Stateless Person" as has been alleged!
But she is entitled to a Dutch Passport by marriage, with a Bangladeshi Passport possibly a fall-back position?
We hung William Joyce for similar publicity worth! TTFN MM



There is doubt about this. Was her 'marriage' legal? The Caliphate was not recognised and she was under 16.
John

Cycling and recycling

User avatar
Graham
Moderator
Posts: 5955
Joined: 14 Dec 2006, 8:48pm

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Graham » 20 Feb 2019, 5:06pm

The message from our government is important and on our behalf : . . . . .

"If you do stuff like that our society doesn't want you back."
"You have facilitated those who would act against us in the most extreme ways."
"You have contributed nothing and, if returned, will likely be an ongoing burden."
"You will likely be at risk ( from the madding crowd ) and will need extraordinary measures to be kept safe."

Meanwhile, contingency planning for her return with all the associated complications.
If you are going to be BAD, it is probably best to go the whole hog.

OTOH. Who would willingly choose to be hated by most of society - except a right nutter.

roubaixtuesday
Posts: 2292
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby roubaixtuesday » 20 Feb 2019, 5:13pm

Graham wrote:The message from our government is important and on our behalf : . . . . .

"If you do stuff like that our society doesn't want you back."
"You have facilitated those who would act against us in the most extreme ways."
"You have contributed nothing and, if returned, will likely be an ongoing burden."
"You will likely be at risk ( from the madding crowd ) and will need extraordinary measures to be kept safe."

Meanwhile, contingency planning for her return with all the associated complications.
If you are going to be BAD, it is probably best to go the whole hog.

OTOH. Who would willingly choose to be hated by most of society - except a right nutter.


Graham, I seriously doubt any deterrence whatsoever. These girls left the country at 15 years old to join a death cult. Worrying about what might happen when they returned would, I suggest, not have been on their list of things to do!

mercalia
Posts: 11634
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby mercalia » 20 Feb 2019, 5:17pm

well one possibility is given us from Heretics from our Christian past? They should have to undergo an examination to publicly recant their beliefs and actions and do a penance ( we dont need to burn them at the stake though to purify their sinful body) If she isnt prepared to do that then take away her Uk citizenship

Oldjohnw
Posts: 2040
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Oldjohnw » 20 Feb 2019, 5:36pm

Apparently Bangladesh has denied her citizenship. Holland is doubtful.
John

Cycling and recycling

Syd
Posts: 159
Joined: 23 Sep 2018, 2:27pm

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Syd » 20 Feb 2019, 6:01pm

Lots of backtracking by her now in the BBC news. E.g.

"I was hoping Britain would understand I made a mistake, a very big mistake, because I was young and naive."

Very different from her alleged comments in earlier reports.

Would I want her back in Britain? No. But then I don’t happily welcome back those who sod off to Spain in early life and come back to sponge off the NHS in their later years either.

Ben@Forest
Posts: 1995
Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 5:58pm

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Ben@Forest » 20 Feb 2019, 7:33pm

Oldjohnw wrote:Lord Hawhaw was brought back here and faced the weight of the law.


Oddly it can be argued that Joyce (or Lord HawHaw) was illegally hanged. He was of Irish background and born in New York. To get a British passport he lied and though it was accepted in court he had acquired it illegally, having got it it was decided he had to be treated as a British citizen.

dodger
Posts: 636
Joined: 28 Jan 2007, 9:33pm
Location: East Cornwall

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby dodger » 20 Feb 2019, 7:34pm

It seems to me that the far right Tory tail is wagging the dog yet again.
Our HS is pandering to the Rees-Moggs of this world as a way of establishing his right to rule as soon as he can lever Theresa out of the door.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 6894
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Bonefishblues » 20 Feb 2019, 7:42pm

dodger wrote:It seems to me that the far right Tory tail is wagging the dog yet again.
Our HS is pandering to the Rees-Moggs of this world as a way of establishing his right to rule as soon as he can lever Theresa out of the door.

Rees Mogg was on QT last week and his expressed view was very different to the above, so no, I think that you are wrong on this count.

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5914
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Tangled Metal » 20 Feb 2019, 9:57pm

Was it a death cult to them? To say that is to misunderstand the caliphate and the motivations / views of those supporters.

First off the girls probably saw the caliphate as a true Islamic nation where they could live an Islamic life according to the strict beliefs they have.

Second point is this caliphate was about setting up an Islamic empire similar to the earliest times iirc shortly after the times of their prophet. AIUI after mohammed died his brother took over then he died and there was a dispute who would lead the faith and the empire of caliphate or whatever it is called. This splintered into those following the nominated successor who wasn't from Mohammed's family. IIRC others followed some distant member of Mohammed's family. That was the first caliphate but it was declared apostate and the true Islamic tradition eventually defeated it in battle. This caliphate I believe considered itself the inheritors of true Islam and a second caliphate taking up from where this first one finished.

The above is the half remembered history I once read so it's likely to only be a very rough gist of the thinking behind the isis caliphate. Put bluntly it was portraying itself as the only true Islamic state because it was set up like that early caliphate. Supporters would see it as positive not a death cult.

I'm a dedicated atheist. Totally committed and unwavering atheist/humanist. But I actually believe there is good in religion so I read about it at times. I will never believe like these religions do but I look at their history (very small parts that seem relevant or that come up through more knowledgeable forumites).

I think to understand things that seem totally alien and illogical can only help coming up with solutions or at least understanding. Calling things you don't like names like death cult is ignoring the situation behind the headline stories. Sorry if it seems I've picked on this one phrase or on one person's comments. I mean no offence.

roubaixtuesday
Posts: 2292
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby roubaixtuesday » 20 Feb 2019, 10:17pm

It was me that used the death cult phrase.

I was really trying to point out the meagre nature of potential deterrence compared to the risks their motivations had already overcome.

"Death cult" is, I think a fair description of ISIS overall, but for sure there are many, like Begum who didn't see it in that way at all.

No offense taken at all, but I do appreciate your sensitivity - thank you!

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5914
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Tangled Metal » 20 Feb 2019, 10:23pm

I've never been accused of sensitivity before! :lol:

I was just trying to prevent a back and forth if someone took offence.

mercalia
Posts: 11634
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby mercalia » 21 Feb 2019, 8:19pm

I think what the Home Secretary's done is quite pathetic and disgusting as if it is Bangladesh's problem and fault. If ever I had a doubt of the quality of some of the politicians then no longer, he dont seem to be one of the best this country has to offer in fact no better than those you hear run on in your local pub after a few pints? God help us if there are more of them in Westminster of his calibre

sjs
Posts: 740
Joined: 24 Jan 2010, 10:08pm
Location: Hitchin

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby sjs » 21 Feb 2019, 8:24pm

mercalia wrote:I think what the Home Secretary's done is quite pathetic and disgusting as if it is Bangladesh's problem and fault. If ever I had a doubt of the quality of some of the politicians then no longer, he dont seem to be one of the best this country has to offer in fact no better than those you hear run on in your local pub after a few pints? God help us if there are more of them in Westminster of his calibre


I don't often agree with you, but on this, absolutely.

reohn2
Posts: 36668
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby reohn2 » 21 Feb 2019, 9:43pm

sjs wrote:
mercalia wrote:I think what the Home Secretary's done is quite pathetic and disgusting as if it is Bangladesh's problem and fault. If ever I had a doubt of the quality of some of the politicians then no longer, he dont seem to be one of the best this country has to offer in fact no better than those you hear run on in your local pub after a few pints? God help us if there are more of them in Westminster of his calibre


I don't often agree with you, but on this, absolutely.

Yep agreed,more idiocy from the Tories,his desicion will be appealed against,overturned costing the country more money in the courts.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.