Jihadi Brides and their Children.

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Pebble
Posts: 92
Joined: 7 Jun 2020, 11:59pm

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Pebble » 17 Jul 2020, 10:08am

tatanab wrote:If she comes back and if she serves some prison time, it seems to me that she will be so well known that she will have to be provided with a new identity. She will probably be unemployable since she will have no skills to offer. All of this is a drain on a country that she has not contributed to.

There will be the book and then the film - her future could be bright providing she can get her foot back in the door.

If we had a decent justice system I would be keen for her to return, but we don't. Any sentence that may be imposed will be token and with early release I doubt she will see a year behind bars.

I'm not without sympathy for her, she was very young when she left. We have to be able to forgive 15 year olds for having mad fanciful ideas - but on the other hand she can't come back as some sort of hero/role model. I really don't know what the solution is, but suspect our current gov will get it spectacularly wrong.
Last edited by Pebble on 17 Jul 2020, 10:10am, edited 1 time in total.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 8107
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Bonefishblues » 17 Jul 2020, 10:10am

Pebble wrote:
tatanab wrote:If she comes back and if she serves some prison time, it seems to me that she will be so well known that she will have to be provided with a new identity. She will probably be unemployable since she will have no skills to offer. All of this is a drain on a country that she has not contributed to.

There will be the book and then the film - her future could be bright providing she can get her foot back in the door.

If we had a decent justice system I would be keen for her to return, but we don't. Any sentence that may be imposed will be token and with early release I doubt she will see a year behind bars.

I'm not without sympathy for her, she was very young when she left. We have to be able to forgive 15 year olds for having mad fanciful ideas - but on the other hand she can't come back as some sort of hero/role model. I really don't know what the solution is, but suspect our currant gov will get it spectacularly wrong.

Gosh that's a big statement.

Or are you talking about punishments, perhaps?

roubaixtuesday
Posts: 3134
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby roubaixtuesday » 17 Jul 2020, 10:39am

Pebble wrote:I really don't know what the solution is...


A modest suggestion: Allow her a fair hearing and apply the rule of law without prejudice.

djnotts
Posts: 1594
Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby djnotts » 17 Jul 2020, 4:22pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:
Pebble wrote:I really don't know what the solution is...


A modest suggestion: Allow her a fair hearing and apply the rule of law without prejudice.


Precisely. Removing citizenship in any circumstances is the thin end of a potentially very large wedge. Doubt those who fought for the democratically elected Spanish government in the '30s would have been allowed to return under current climate.

reohn2
Posts: 39659
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby reohn2 » 17 Jul 2020, 4:34pm

djnotts wrote:......... Removing citizenship in any circumstances is the thin end of a potentially very large wedge......

Nail,head,on!
Who would be next to lose citizenship?
Especially with the madcap loonies currently running the show :?
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I cycle therefore I am.

Oldjohnw
Posts: 4665
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Oldjohnw » 17 Jul 2020, 5:03pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:
Pebble wrote:I really don't know what the solution is...


A modest suggestion: Allow her a fair hearing and apply the rule of law without prejudice.


+1
John

Pebble
Posts: 92
Joined: 7 Jun 2020, 11:59pm

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Pebble » 18 Jul 2020, 1:20pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:A modest suggestion: Allow her a fair hearing and apply the rule of law without prejudice.

Court case is a red herring though - it makes no difference whether she wins or looses, her desire is to be back in the UK and once she is here we will never deport her, setting foot in a UK court is a win win situation for her. A short spell in prison and she will be soon in nice modern apartment with full benefits (she won't end up homeless and wandering the streets like so many of our ex servicemen do). If she looses the right to be here where would we take her to?

And then the rub is, a few hundred more like her will be following along behind. And forget so called deradicalisation nonsense, you can never change what we hold dear deep down inside. They will all need watched 24 hours a day for decades, 6 police assigned per suspect terrorist? the cost would be astonishing.

As I say, I do feel sorry for the mess she is in, but there is a lot of people in the world I would be helping before her.

toontra
Posts: 695
Joined: 21 Dec 2007, 11:01am
Location: London

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby toontra » 18 Jul 2020, 1:50pm

Pebble wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:A modest suggestion: Allow her a fair hearing and apply the rule of law without prejudice.

Court case is a red herring though - it makes no difference whether she wins or looses, her desire is to be back in the UK and once she is here we will never deport her, setting foot in a UK court is a win win situation for her. A short spell in prison and she will be soon in nice modern apartment with full benefits (she won't end up homeless and wandering the streets like so many of our ex servicemen do). If she looses the right to be here where would we take her to?

And then the rub is, a few hundred more like her will be following along behind. And forget so called deradicalisation nonsense, you can never change what we hold dear deep down inside. They will all need watched 24 hours a day for decades, 6 police assigned per suspect terrorist? the cost would be astonishing.

As I say, I do feel sorry for the mess she is in, but there is a lot of people in the world I would be helping before her.


Correct in every respect. The cost to the UK will be immense, in every respect. A disgraceful decision that's unlikely to be overturned at appeal.

roubaixtuesday
Posts: 3134
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby roubaixtuesday » 18 Jul 2020, 1:56pm

Pebble wrote: once she is here we will never deport her.


Yes, as she's a British citizen and was born and brought up here, this seems fairly obviously the right thing to do.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 8107
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Bonefishblues » 18 Jul 2020, 2:41pm

toontra wrote:
Pebble wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:A modest suggestion: Allow her a fair hearing and apply the rule of law without prejudice.

Court case is a red herring though - it makes no difference whether she wins or looses, her desire is to be back in the UK and once she is here we will never deport her, setting foot in a UK court is a win win situation for her. A short spell in prison and she will be soon in nice modern apartment with full benefits (she won't end up homeless and wandering the streets like so many of our ex servicemen do). If she looses the right to be here where would we take her to?

And then the rub is, a few hundred more like her will be following along behind. And forget so called deradicalisation nonsense, you can never change what we hold dear deep down inside. They will all need watched 24 hours a day for decades, 6 police assigned per suspect terrorist? the cost would be astonishing.

As I say, I do feel sorry for the mess she is in, but there is a lot of people in the world I would be helping before her.


Correct in every respect. The cost to the UK will be immense, in every respect. A disgraceful decision that's unlikely to be overturned at appeal.

Yes, it's disappointing that we have decided to clear up our own sh1t, for sure. Withdrawing her citizenship should shirley have meant someone else should have done it for us. Disgraceful indeed.

reohn2
Posts: 39659
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby reohn2 » 18 Jul 2020, 2:44pm

toontra wrote:
Pebble wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:A modest suggestion: Allow her a fair hearing and apply the rule of law without prejudice.

Court case is a red herring though - it makes no difference whether she wins or looses, her desire is to be back in the UK and once she is here we will never deport her, setting foot in a UK court is a win win situation for her. A short spell in prison and she will be soon in nice modern apartment with full benefits (she won't end up homeless and wandering the streets like so many of our ex servicemen do). If she looses the right to be here where would we take her to?

And then the rub is, a few hundred more like her will be following along behind. And forget so called deradicalisation nonsense, you can never change what we hold dear deep down inside. They will all need watched 24 hours a day for decades, 6 police assigned per suspect terrorist? the cost would be astonishing.

As I say, I do feel sorry for the mess she is in, but there is a lot of people in the world I would be helping before her.


Correct in every respect. The cost to the UK will be immense, in every respect. A disgraceful decision that's unlikely to be overturned at appeal.

There was a case on local news last night of an exsoldier who after the Manchester bombing went out to Syria off hos own bat to join the fight against ISIS,on his return he was arrested and charged with terrorist offences,he was found guilty and served 9months(I think)of his sentence before being released on appeal when all charges were dropped.
Taking that case in the initial instance and undermthe same rule of law the Home Sec could quite easily,unlikely I agree,have removed his citizenship.

The whole point of citizenship AIUI,is that a person by international law cannot be made stateless and must have citizenship of a country,otherwise they cannot live and provide for themselves other in a black economy.
As stated by others this young woman is a disgrace,but she's the UK's disgrace and as such should face UK law,and if found guilty sentenced accordingly.How much that costs is totally beside the point.

AFAICS there are many more people doing far worse things than she,some knighted by the queen,possibly one in the royal family,who'll suffer no hardship,infact quite the opposite!
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Oldjohnw
Posts: 4665
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Oldjohnw » 18 Jul 2020, 3:02pm

We have the rule of law precisely because we must never have a member of the executive deciding that hey don't want someone so get rid of them.

Sometimes it is uncomfortable: a capricious Home Secretary would be much more so.

I'd love to know where the idea of terrorists getting nice modern apartments comes from.
Last edited by Oldjohnw on 18 Jul 2020, 5:08pm, edited 1 time in total.
John

Bonefishblues
Posts: 8107
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Bonefishblues » 18 Jul 2020, 4:23pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
I'd love to know where the idea of terrorists getting nice modern apartments comes from.

Is the answer the Daily Mail?

ANTONISH
Posts: 1835
Joined: 26 Mar 2009, 9:49am

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby ANTONISH » 18 Jul 2020, 4:55pm

Unfortunately this woman is still an unrepentant Jihadist.
She has been willing to cheer on the murderers hacking the heads of people deemed to be guilty of being unbelievers.
Also she was a willing participant of an Islamic women's group enforcing dress codes and punishments for minor breaches of "Islamic" dress codes.
She chose IS and IMO is still loyal to it's disgusting and inhuman tenets.

We will no doubt have to repatriate her.

She will be a security threat for the rest of her life.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 8107
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Bonefishblues » 18 Jul 2020, 5:23pm

ANTONISH wrote:Unfortunately this woman is still an unrepentant Jihadist.
She has been willing to cheer on the murderers hacking the heads of people deemed to be guilty of being unbelievers.
Also she was a willing participant of an Islamic women's group enforcing dress codes and punishments for minor breaches of "Islamic" dress codes.
She chose IS and IMO is still loyal to it's disgusting and inhuman tenets.


We will no doubt have to repatriate her.

She will be a security threat for the rest of her life.

You clearly have a remarkable insight into her psyche and beliefs. Would you be able to share the source(s) with others so they too can benefit from them?