Jihadi Brides and their Children.

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Oldjohnw
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Oldjohnw » 18 Jul 2020, 5:50pm

Bonefishblues wrote:
ANTONISH wrote:Unfortunately this woman is still an unrepentant Jihadist.
She has been willing to cheer on the murderers hacking the heads of people deemed to be guilty of being unbelievers.
Also she was a willing participant of an Islamic women's group enforcing dress codes and punishments for minor breaches of "Islamic" dress codes.
She chose IS and IMO is still loyal to it's disgusting and inhuman tenets.


We will no doubt have to repatriate her.

She will be a security threat for the rest of her life.

You clearly have a remarkable insight into her psyche and beliefs. Would you be able to share the source(s) with others so they too can benefit from them?


All the more reason for her to stand trial and let the evidence come out.
John

reohn2
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby reohn2 » 18 Jul 2020, 6:38pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
ANTONISH wrote:Unfortunately this woman is still an unrepentant Jihadist.
She has been willing to cheer on the murderers hacking the heads of people deemed to be guilty of being unbelievers.
Also she was a willing participant of an Islamic women's group enforcing dress codes and punishments for minor breaches of "Islamic" dress codes.
She chose IS and IMO is still loyal to it's disgusting and inhuman tenets.


We will no doubt have to repatriate her.

She will be a security threat for the rest of her life.

You clearly have a remarkable insight into her psyche and beliefs. Would you be able to share the source(s) with others so they too can benefit from them?


All the more reason for her to stand trial and let the evidence come out.

Exactly!
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Graham
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby Graham » 19 Jul 2020, 10:08am

If she comes back to this country, I'm guessing that she will have to be given a new identity AND somehow "kept safe".
- from persons who resent her actions and would do her harm.
- from I.S. persons who would attempt to control her with threats of extreme action against her or her family.

At best she would be a virtual prisoner of the state ( if not an actual prisoner ).

Is there any decent quailty-of-life left for her anywhere ??

merseymouth
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby merseymouth » 19 Jul 2020, 11:14am

Correct Graham, No! As was often said years ago, "She made her bed, let her lie in it"! MM

reohn2
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby reohn2 » 19 Jul 2020, 11:21am

merseymouth wrote:Correct Graham, No! As was often said years ago, "She made her bed, let her lie in it"! MM

What of forgiveness for the repentent?

There are many,many more people who've done far worse,served their time and are now walking about among us,and leading productive lives!

With your outlook the world would habited by blind people sleeping on beds of nails!
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ANTONISH
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby ANTONISH » 19 Jul 2020, 12:52pm

Bonefishblues wrote:
ANTONISH wrote:Unfortunately this woman is still an unrepentant Jihadist.
She has been willing to cheer on the murderers hacking the heads of people deemed to be guilty of being unbelievers.
Also she was a willing participant of an Islamic women's group enforcing dress codes and punishments for minor breaches of "Islamic" dress codes.
She chose IS and IMO is still loyal to it's disgusting and inhuman tenets.


We will no doubt have to repatriate her.

She will be a security threat for the rest of her life.

You clearly have a remarkable insight into her psyche and beliefs. Would you be able to share the source(s) with others so they too can benefit from them?


Only from her actions as attested by various witnesses and what she has said in interviews. Of course you can believe that she is contrite and will never be a future threat.
wait and see

merseymouth
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby merseymouth » 19 Jul 2020, 1:00pm

Hi, We have heard no words of repentance, seen no signs of contrition, only how she feels vulnerable in the camp!
As I.S. offer no quality of life for the females who fall within the grasp, no attitude that self determination by individuals is acceptable, how awful would be the lives of others with I.S. in charge?
The ones I feel sorry for is her immediate family, who may well see her as never being a fit mother let alone a worthwhile human being! MM

pete75
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby pete75 » 19 Jul 2020, 1:03pm

Oh what the hell does it matter if she comes back? Why all the fuss when there are vastly more important, harmful and pressing matters to worry about?

slowster
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby slowster » 19 Jul 2020, 1:39pm

Graham wrote:If she comes back to this country, I'm guessing that she will have to be given a new identity AND somehow "kept safe".
- from persons who resent her actions and would do her harm.
- from I.S. persons who would attempt to control her with threats of extreme action against her or her family.

At best she would be a virtual prisoner of the state ( if not an actual prisoner ).

Is there any decent quailty-of-life left for her anywhere ??

I think it is especially wrong for a decision about removal of citizenship to be taken by a politician: the decision is too vulnerable to the personal bias and caprice of the politician, and too susceptible to the politician being influenced by the media and how the public will view the decision. For the same reason that the Home Secretary no longer determines the length of the tariff for 'life sentences' and when to parole such prisoners, such decisions should be taken by the judicial system. Politicians should make the laws, but they should not also be the ones who decide in individual cases how to enforce and interpret those laws and what punishment to impose on individuals: that should always be for an independent judiciary.

My view has been that one of the most important functions of the state is to punish those who transgress the laws that the state passes and which govern us all. However exile has long been one of the ways in which many societies and states have dealt with people whom it considered a threat, but whom it did not want to incarcerate. Historically the UK has been one of those countries to which exiles have come, but maybe Begum's case is one where it would be in her own and the UK's best interests for her to settle in another country where she would be less unwelcome, possibly a largely Sunni Islam country.

roubaixtuesday
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby roubaixtuesday » 19 Jul 2020, 2:54pm

merseymouth wrote:Correct Graham, No! As was often said years ago, "She made her bed, let her lie in it"! MM


Yes. 15 year old children groomed and exploited by extremists should be denied a fair hearing and face arbitrary punishment. Quite right.

reohn2
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby reohn2 » 19 Jul 2020, 4:24pm

merseymouth wrote:Hi, We have heard no words of repentance, seen no signs of contrition, only how she feels vulnerable in the camp!
As I.S. offer no quality of life for the females who fall within the grasp, no attitude that self determination by individuals is acceptable, how awful would be the lives of others with I.S. in charge?
The ones I feel sorry for is her immediate family, who may well see her as never being a fit mother let alone a worthwhile human being! MM

What we've heard is what a populist media tell us,from a young woman living in a camp with women who could possibly turn on her were she to speak her mind.
Her position is by no means as staight forward as you'd like to think,you appear to be turning the 'innocent until proven guilty' of UK law on it's head.
I'm a bit more open minded on the matter,if she's tried in the UK and found guilty she'd need to serve her sentence and if possible be rehabilitated.
As RT says,she was 15 years old when she got into this mess and is even now only 20,with two dead children to mourn,have a thought as to what effect that has on a young mind.
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merseymouth
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby merseymouth » 19 Jul 2020, 4:41pm

Wow, Nice link, so she was't really trotting off to I.S., she was running from the sick folk who have exploited children for perverted reasons?
Our society may have problems with the fact that young people are exploited for all sorts of reasons, targeted as a consumer group, urged to act well beyond their years, urged to consider themselves old enough to have self determination over anything & everything!
Having seen countless number of girls of 7 & 8 years of age doing the sexually charged pop routines, all trying to vaunt their stuff in a far more overt way than Mae West ever did, I think our society has failed, one could at least say that I.S. wouldn't have allowed that stuff!
And yes even children's TV doesn't escape that charge.
But most of us have had no part or control over so much of the exploitation, so why should we have to live with the consequences of the sick among us,
Too many parents are seemingly happy for younger & younger girls to act well above their years, childhood gone well before its time!
Being a parent is not easy, but being a bad parent is far too easy, just abdicating the role of guide.
I.S. offer no help in being a decent human being! MM

reohn2
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby reohn2 » 19 Jul 2020, 4:54pm

MM
I agree with your statement about western culture and the way it's going and equally about I.S./Daesh/ISIS.
We are dealing with extremes and the vulnerable are molded by the twisted mind sets of extremists.
Is it not possible for those whose minds have been perverted by such extremes to be rehabilitated or is it your belief that such people are beyond redemption?
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merseymouth
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby merseymouth » 19 Jul 2020, 5:18pm

Yo again, I have yet to see any sign of her parents admitting failure on their part regarding her flight?
I wonder what their thoughts would be, do they believe that they may in some way have failed her? I would certainly question myself in such a situation.
But I must assert that I personally do not feel that I should in any way accept a portion of blame for this whole sorry mess!
I would say we as a society should have to accept the risk that she might pose, we've got enough on our plate over the likes of Venebles & Thompson et al! MM

reohn2
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Re: Jihadi Brides and their Children.

Postby reohn2 » 19 Jul 2020, 5:31pm

merseymouth wrote:Yo again, I have yet to see any sign of her parents admitting failure on their part regarding her flight?
I wonder what their thoughts would be, do they believe that they may in some way have failed her? I would certainly question myself in such a situation.

She was a juvenile at the time she absconded so the parents must take some blame IMO.

But I must assert that I personally do not feel that I should in any way accept a portion of blame for this whole sorry mess!

No one's asking you to.

I would say we as a society should have to accept the risk that she might pose, we've got enough on our plate over the likes of Venebles & Thompson et al! MM

We could simply expel them from the country.
Life is a risk,as I posted up thread there are many,many more people who have done far worse than this young woman,served their sentence and are now walking amongst us leading productive lives.
As for having "enough on our plate" she is "our plate" and has been since birth just like many other criminals who've rehabilitated and gone on to turn over a new leaf.
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I cycle therefore I am.