The gang of how many?

[NATURAL ANKLING]

10 Green bottles hanging on the wall
.......

[horizon]

Another Labour MP this morning:- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47330079
When does it become an avalanche!

I'm prepared to eat my words but the whole thing has become a damp squib. The two main political parties (both very broad churches and with a little help from the Libs/Dems) have steered Britain through 70 years of post-war history for better or worse. Both the Conservative party and the Labour party have deep roots in the business class and the labour movement respectively and are much more important than just their MPs. When the Tories govern, they do so with the (sometimes grudging) support of business, entrepreneurs, middle class professionals, Brexiters, many working class people, home owners and such like: it is a huge legitimacy. And the same can be said (in its terms) for the Labour party. The maverick MPs on the left of the Tory party or the right of the Labour party are an essential part of this broad spectrum - on their own they are irrelevant. A political party is not a consumer brand, like your gas supplier. It is the representation of the tectonic plates in national and global economy and society.

I would put my money on all these MPs (bar one or two at the most) being wiped out at the next general election and, IMV, as much as I like them personally, rightly so.

[PDQ Mobile]

Another Labour MP this morning:- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47330079
When does it become an avalanche!

"I'm prepared to eat my words but the whole thing has become a damp squib. The two main political parties (both very broad churches and with a little help from the Libs/Dems) have steered Britain through 70 years of post-war history for better or worse. Both the Conservative party and the Labour party have deep roots in the business class and the labour movement respectively and are much more important than just their MPs. When the Tories govern, they do so with the (sometimes grudging) support of business, entrepreneurs, middle class professionals, Brexiters, many working class people, home owners and such like: it is a huge legitimacy. And the same can be said (in its terms) for the Labour party. The maverick MPs on the left of the Tory party or the right of the Labour party are an essential part of this broad spectrum - on their own they are irrelevant. A political party is not a consumer brand, like your gas supplier. It is the representation of the tectonic plates in national and global economy and society.

I would put my money on all these MPs (bar one or two at the most) being wiped out at the next general election and, IMV, as much as I like them personally, rightly so.[/quote]

]I don't share your faith in the system as it is.
It has delivered too little over all my long life, to little in the way of positive direction but always this dreadful point scoring.
I think PR is a better system, where compromise is more of a directional force.
I also do not share your view of at least some of the MP's who have resigned. IMV it is standing by one's principles and considered opinion.
I personally would rather vote for such a person than merely on outdated party lines.

[horizon]

I personally would rather vote for such a person than merely on outdated party lines.

Parties need to flex and change to reflect new economic realities (q.v. David Cameron, Tony Blair, Jeremy Corbyn). Otherwise new parties do creep up on them. But the fundamentals (the underlying tension between capital and labour) haven't really changed.

[mercalia]

here is a report of the stats of ( reported) anti-semitism in the Labour party, Anti Semitism has been given as one of the reasons for leaving the Labour party by the green bottles?

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/blog/labours-antisemitism-data-a-genuine-problem-and-media-exaggeration/

Whos Who. makes interesting reading? some have lost the confidence of their local party. some have jewish connections ( The board of deputies wants to stifle any criticism of Israel and equates such with anti semitism i think). disgruntled wannabe leaders who never could be ( Chuka Umunna )

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47277281

[reohn2]

10 Green bottles hanging on the wall
.......

Don't you mean red and blue?

[mercalia]

10 Green bottles hanging on the wall
.......

Don't you mean red and blue?

maybe green with envy?

[reohn2]

10 Green bottles hanging on the wall
.......

Don't you mean red and blue?

maybe green with envy?

Of what?

[reohn2]

Horizon
Yes I believe political parties need to be flexible to a degree,but making a desicion such as the present 13(unlucky for some)MP's have done takes a lot of courage and soul searching,you don't make such desicions lightly as they make a lot of enemies in the party you've left especially when you've been a party member for as long as most of them have.
As the MP's in question are moderates,such desicions speaks volumes of what's happening within their respective parties and directions they're heading,whether they survive at the next election is anyone's guess,but I've no doubt as perceived traitors by their parties,they'll they'll feel the full weight of their respective party machines against them,that is unless what we're witnessing is completely new direction for UK politics.
Damp squib or not,which remains to be seen,they certainly don't lack courage.

[Mick F]

Damp squib or not,which remains to be seen,they certainly don't lack courage.

Yes. Agree.

Did you hear the interview of Ian Austin (MP for Dudley North since 2005) on R4 this afternoon?
I wish he was down here instead of that awful Sheryll Murray.

I'd vote for Ian Austin like a shot.

[reohn2]

Damp squib or not,which remains to be seen,they certainly don't lack courage.

Yes. Agree.

Did you hear the interview of Ian Austin (MP for Dudley North since 2005) on R4 this afternoon?
I wish he was down here instead of that awful Sheryll Murray.

I'd vote for Ian Austin like a shot.

Missed that Mick,we were out on the tandem in the lovely spring weather

[horizon]

Horizon
Yes I believe political parties need to be flexible to a degree,but making a desicion such as the present 13(unlucky for some)MP's have done takes a lot of courage and soul searching,you don't make such desicions lightly as they make a lot of enemies in the party you've left especially when you've been a party member for as long as most of them have.

There was an interesting point made by someone on the Politics Live show on BBC2. He said that the Tory party is now very left-wing or Heathite ("as wet as Jim Prior in a sauna!"). Well, it's arguable but nevertheless.

The 13 MPs are brave but also a bit naive. i would vote for many of them but at the end of the day parties exist for a reason and being a bit to one end of your party isn't a reason for leaving - it's a reason for staying. I think we've lost some good MPs who would have made much more impact by staying in their respective parties.

[Ben@Forest]

The 13 MPs are brave but also a bit naive. i would vote for many of them but at the end of the day parties exist for a reason and being a bit to one end of your party isn't a reason for leaving - it's a reason for staying. I think we've lost some good MPs who would have made much more impact by staying in their respective parties.

True but l genuinely believe that those Labour MPs whom have left because of anti-semitism have a point. I think a-s has had a thread of its own, but you can't stay in a party in which it is definitely a problem and which the leadership has little interest in addressing.

[Debs]

10 Green bottles hanging on the wall
.......

Don't you mean red and blue?

They certainly have a lot of bottle

[PDQ Mobile]

There was an interesting point made by someone on the Politics Live show on BBC2. He said that the Tory party is now very left-wing or Heathite ("as wet as Jim Prior in a sauna!"). Well, it's arguable but nevertheless.

The 13 MPs are brave but also a bit naive. i would vote for many of them but at the end of the day parties exist for a reason and being a bit to one end of your party isn't a reason for leaving - it's a reason for staying. I think we've lost some good MPs who would have made much more impact by staying in their respective parties.

Hmm "Politics Live" must live on a different planet.
Or is that some strange press bias? Propaganda even?

The ERG faction isn't left wing at all. Quite the opposite and in my view downright unpleasant and intolerant.

I don't think the MPs are naive at all.
If you had listened to their statements, while a no deal Brexit is the biggy for them, they clearly find the austerity so heavily imposed by the ERG type thinkers to be now totally unacceptable.

The inequality in GB is at is most pronounced. Prison populations are at record levels and infrastucture is poorly maintained.
But Rees Mogg's and his ilk are doing ok avoiding tax where they can etc.

The group that have left the Tories are, for the moment,still MPs and with the house so finely balanced they hold considerable power as a group. A thinking group too.
Not some narrow cartel like the DUP, only out for themselves.

So good IMV, democracy functioning as it should.