Transgender athletes (and related stuff)

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pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Transgender athletes (and related stuff)

Postby pwa » 4 Mar 2020, 10:31am

kwackers wrote:
pwa wrote:I have been wondering how long that chain of letters can get before it breaks. I know it is an effort at inclusivity, which is great, but it is getting unwieldy. The time is ripe for a short phrase or single word that encapsulates folk who are "other".

I've always been slightly narked by peoples desire to continually subdivide things to atomic level
(Mind you it started with music.)

As a straight, white bloke who prefers bottoms to breasts what I want to know is; what letter can I have?
(Are there any free?)

I doubt that most people included in the LGBT... are consulted about the constant extending of that string of letters. And I can't believe that it won't soon occur to folk in those categories to come up with a short umbrella term.

Carlton green
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Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: Transgender athletes (and related stuff)

Postby Carlton green » 4 Mar 2020, 10:38am

Tangled Metal wrote:Bingo! You've got it. If everyone accepted a woman looking like a man then transitioning pre puberty or at all might not be necessary. Transitioning might not be needed or it might be wanted. Doesn't matter which. I just think there's a reason age limits what younger people can legally do across many areas. You can't vote, drink alcohol, make your own medical decisions, drive a car, etc.


My thoughts on the topic have changed a little over the years, such discussions as these (well managed ones) help explore topics in an educated and caring way. As it happens I know someone with a fairly Male build who was born female, they made the transition last year and seem happier for it if concerned what others might think. Years ago I stopped associating Male or Female with that person and just accepted them for the capable and good soul that they were. She (at that time) on the other hand struggled a bit to be the dainty lady that society expects (difficult with shoulders like a Rugby player).

IMHO if we just accepted folk for who they were, and didn’t force folk to fit into social stereotypes, then we’d all be a lot happier and much of this gender reassignment wouldn’t be necessary. In a civilised society there are relatively things were it actually matters whether one is Male, Female or somewhere in-between and we should see the person (character) in front of us way before we identify their sexuality or lack of. Of course that’s not an easy thing to do, we’re just not programmed that way and the social change required shouldn’t be underestimated or undertaken without care.

Vorpal
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Re: Transgender athletes (and related stuff)

Postby Vorpal » 4 Mar 2020, 12:06pm

pwa wrote:
kwackers wrote:
pwa wrote:I have been wondering how long that chain of letters can get before it breaks. I know it is an effort at inclusivity, which is great, but it is getting unwieldy. The time is ripe for a short phrase or single word that encapsulates folk who are "other".

I've always been slightly narked by peoples desire to continually subdivide things to atomic level
(Mind you it started with music.)

As a straight, white bloke who prefers bottoms to breasts what I want to know is; what letter can I have?
(Are there any free?)

I doubt that most people included in the LGBT... are consulted about the constant extending of that string of letters. And I can't believe that it won't soon occur to folk in those categories to come up with a short umbrella term.

Most of the folks I know from that community use LGBTQ, with 'queer' being gender non-conforming. I have seen some Asexual folks object on social media to being lumped in with 'queer', or offended by the term, but others who seem happy with it as inclusive.

If it seems important, I usually just ask what the people I am interacting with prefer.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

kwackers
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Location: Warrington

Re: Transgender athletes (and related stuff)

Postby kwackers » 4 Mar 2020, 12:18pm

Vorpal wrote:If it seems important, I usually just ask what the people I am interacting with prefer.

If.

Don't think I've ever been in a position where it mattered so I've never needed to ask.
I'm more concerned that this preoccupation with niches and trying to find one to slot in isn't counterproductive.

fullupandslowingdown
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Location: missing Snottingham, the home of Raleigh and Boots
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Re: Transgender athletes (and related stuff)

Postby fullupandslowingdown » 4 Mar 2020, 12:20pm

..... And I can't believe that it won't soon occur to folk in those categories to come up with a short umbrella term.


I've got one.
.
.
Human

mercalia
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Location: london South

Re: Transgender athletes (and related stuff)

Postby mercalia » 4 Mar 2020, 11:38pm

This is all getting too weird for me.

“Mother” is a gendered term and so should not be used to describe a transgender man who gave birth in 2018 after transitioning from female to male, the court of appeal has been told.

Freddy McConnell, a journalist who writes for the Guardian, is appealing against a high court ruling that he could not be named as the father or parent on his child’s birth certificate.


https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/mar/04/transgender-man-appeals-decision-not-to-be-named-father

so he wants to be a man who has babies :? :shock: :roll:

I wonder what being a man is in his eyes. I think its going Alice in Wonderland. The crazies are in control of the assylum

Carlton green
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Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: Transgender athletes (and related stuff)

Postby Carlton green » 7 Mar 2020, 12:10am

mercalia wrote:This is all getting too weird for me.

“Mother” is a gendered term and so should not be used to describe a transgender man who gave birth in 2018 after transitioning from female to male, the court of appeal has been told.

Freddy McConnell, a journalist who writes for the Guardian, is appealing against a high court ruling that he could not be named as the father or parent on his child’s birth certificate.


https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/mar/04/transgender-man-appeals-decision-not-to-be-named-father

so he wants to be a man who has babies :? :shock: :roll:

I wonder what being a man is in his eyes. I think its going Alice in Wonderland. The crazies are in control of the assylum


I too find that the World is like that sometimes, common sense died decades ago and very often the lunatics do seem to have the keys to the asylum. A bike ride helps and so does just closing my front door on the world and letting them get in with it - mostly things sort themselves out in some form of workable fashion.

In the case of the transgender parent perhaps ‘he’ feels that for the future it might be most practical for ‘his’ Male appearance to be recognised on the Birth certificate, so a matter of building in pragmatism and flexibility for the future.

mercalia
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Location: london South

Re: Transgender athletes (and related stuff)

Postby mercalia » 7 Mar 2020, 12:26pm

Carlton green wrote:
mercalia wrote:This is all getting too weird for me.

“Mother” is a gendered term and so should not be used to describe a transgender man who gave birth in 2018 after transitioning from female to male, the court of appeal has been told.

Freddy McConnell, a journalist who writes for the Guardian, is appealing against a high court ruling that he could not be named as the father or parent on his child’s birth certificate.


https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/mar/04/transgender-man-appeals-decision-not-to-be-named-father

so he wants to be a man who has babies :? :shock: :roll:

I wonder what being a man is in his eyes. I think its going Alice in Wonderland. The crazies are in control of the assylum


I too find that the World is like that sometimes, common sense died decades ago and very often the lunatics do seem to have the keys to the asylum. A bike ride helps and so does just closing my front door on the world and letting them get in with it - mostly things sort themselves out in some form of workable fashion.

In the case of the transgender parent perhaps ‘he’ feels that for the future it might be most practical for ‘his’ Male appearance to be recognised on the Birth certificate, so a matter of building in pragmatism and flexibility for the future.


well seems to me "he" wants to deceive people that in future "he" doesnt have to indicate "he" gave birth to the kid, so people will just assume "he" is just the kids dad

Carlton green
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Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: Transgender athletes (and related stuff)

Postby Carlton green » 7 Mar 2020, 4:01pm

mercalia wrote:
Carlton green wrote:
mercalia wrote:This is all getting too weird for me.

“Mother” is a gendered term and so should not be used to describe a transgender man who gave birth in 2018 after transitioning from female to male, the court of appeal has been told.

Freddy McConnell, a journalist who writes for the Guardian, is appealing against a high court ruling that he could not be named as the father or parent on his child’s birth certificate.


https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/mar/04/transgender-man-appeals-decision-not-to-be-named-father

so he wants to be a man who has babies :? :shock: :roll:

I wonder what being a man is in his eyes. I think its going Alice in Wonderland. The crazies are in control of the assylum


I too find that the World is like that sometimes, common sense died decades ago and very often the lunatics do seem to have the keys to the asylum. A bike ride helps and so does just closing my front door on the world and letting them get in with it - mostly things sort themselves out in some form of workable fashion.

In the case of the transgender parent perhaps ‘he’ feels that for the future it might be most practical for ‘his’ Male appearance to be recognised on the Birth certificate, so a matter of building in pragmatism and flexibility for the future.


well seems to me "he" wants to deceive people that in future "he" doesnt have to indicate "he" gave birth to the kid, so people will just assume "he" is just the kids dad


Though I would agree that ‘on the face of it’ a deception is involved I don’t think that I would use the word ‘deceive’, to my way of thinking that’s a bit harsh. Someone in transition has enough problems already and to inflict further ones, and ones on the child of such a person, really isn’t a nice thing to do, and particularly so if it is avoidable. To my mind the kindest thing to do, and one that could be a very pragmatic solution, is to go with following the parents wishes. Personally I don’t have any issues with people assuming that he is the kids Dad. To me it’s now just a case of live and let live, but there was a time when I’d have struggled with this situation. I guess that discussion and information help us to reevaluate many things and to question the reference points and principles by which we run our life ... always good to question and to avoid automatic prejudice.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Transgender athletes (and related stuff)

Postby Tangled Metal » 8 Mar 2020, 8:45pm

Who was that transgender on that jungle reality tv competition thingy? She said her daughter's still call her dad. He said he didn't mind that.

mercalia
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Location: london South

Re: Transgender athletes (and related stuff)

Postby mercalia » 8 Mar 2020, 9:47pm

a strange thing. if you have some kind of non normal condition that is a threat to others you have a problem that needs treatment, drugs and electro shock, and they are analysed and things found wrong in their upbringing, lack of love etc and there is a fancy forboding name for it, but if not, then thats just part of being normal and ok and the law should reflect that variety. Equal rights for psychopaths?

mercalia
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Re: Transgender athletes (and related stuff)

Postby mercalia » 29 Jun 2020, 6:04pm

Remember Father Ted? - The silencing of Graham Linehan

Over the weekend, Linehan was booted off Twitter. His apparent crime? To tweet the words: 'men aren’t women tho'. His post, in response to a message from the Women’s Institute wishing their transgender members a happy Pride, was too much for Twitter. Now Linehan has been permanently suspended, it would seem, for saying among other things words that the majority of people would surely agree with.


As Professor Kathleen Stock commented, 'Graham Linehan shouldn't have been banned from Twitter. He doesn't put things sensitively, he's p***** people off, but he's also done his best to stick up for women against encroaching trans activism. For which he has paid disproportionately. Cowardly blue ticks walk on by.'


https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-graham-linehan-fell-foul-of-the-transgender-mob?utm_medium=email&utm_source=CampaignMonitor_Editorial&utm_campaign=LNCH%20%2020200629%20%20House%20%20SM+CID_1e539359476280034c3ad27e837d7cc7

markjohnobrien
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Re: Transgender athletes (and related stuff)

Postby markjohnobrien » 29 Jun 2020, 8:04pm

From Vorpal - “Children are not normally transitioned. They are just put on puberty blockers, the effects of which can be reversed simply by stopping the medication. The same blockers are used for all sorts other medical treatments, and there is no danger in them whatsoever”.


Not correct.

The NHS have changed their guidelines to stress the possible long term damage and effects: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.spec ... eality/amp

This is experimenting on a generation of young children without any long term study of the dangers. One is that once children have been on puberty blockers for 12 months they (virtually 100% of the cohort) are given cross sex hormone drugs that are irreversible and can damage fertility.

The possible psychological dangers of puberty blockers are also now emphasised along with damage to bones, etc, so a blase “...there is no danger in them whatsoever” is not true and is a willingness to allow risky experimentation on children.

If smacking is seen as abuse, this is potentially far worse.