Vorpal wrote: mercalia wrote:
Vorpal wrote:The 'witch hunt in Scotland'. The article posted immediately before my post, by you, is about a transphobe who objected to being targetted by transactivists. My summary may have been a little flippant, but you have posted multiple articles like this, with similar themes by the Spectator.
well you think she is a transphobe others may disagree. you are showing your bias I think and you clearly dont like the Spectator
it seems the whole question on teen transitioning is going to court. good thing too. The whole issue needs to be examinedhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54450273
and a podcast from the GuardianUnderstanding the fight over trans rightshttps://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2020/oct/08/understanding-the-fight-over-trans-rights-part-1?
By the way the Guardian podcast Today In Focus is a good podcast to sub to in a podcast "reader" on your smartphone
You are correct that I do not like The Spectator, but that's really not the problem, here. The problem is that you are repeatedly posting stuff from them, without comment, when it doesn't really contribute anything to the discussion. It's the same sort of thing, different articles, with similar opinions, and no analysis. *that* is what problematic, not that it comes from The Spectator. Their articles on this subject are offensive, and I have been letting it go for months.
The person featured in the article does not agree that trans women are women. That either makes her a transphobe or a terf, take your pick.
What the science says is that there are no clear lines between male & female, as shown in the figure below
While this comes from a blog, it is wrriten by a scientist; Katherine Wu holds a Ph.D. in microbiology and immunobiology from Harvard University. The title for the diagram includes the following:
An incomplete and incomprehensive representation of gender identity and sexual orientation. Transgender individuals are those who identify with a gender that differs from their assigned sex. This is a facet of identity that is completely distinct from sexual orientation. These graphs do not represent the full spectrum of either facet, as they are multidimensional. For instance, there may be genders that some identify with that are neither “male” nor “female. Furthermore, there are no “lines” that divide these identities, and they may be considered malleable and overlapping.
The blog is published by Harvard http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2016/ ... -identity/
The science is not subject to opinion. The belief that gender is a binary male/female is simply that. A belief. There is little scientific basis for it.https://cadehildreth.com/gender-spectrum/https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/vo ... ansphobia/
I have read a number of articles, even scientific ones, that 'show' that sex is biological and binary. One of them uses the lack of non-binary sex in simple organisms as evidence. Another simply states that there is a 'great deal' of research supporting it, but the references are mainly more than 30 years old. Another used population statistics to show there is only a tiny minority of people who don't fit the binary, and therefore, everyone can live with what their birth certificate says. Yet another used semantics to demonstrate that the words male and female are by definition binary, therefore humans are sexually binary. None provided any convincing evidence or alternative explanations.
If you wish to discuss this further, please provide science and/or critical argument.
Your references are unfortunate. The 'Cade Hildreth' makes rather basic errors for someone with a degree of a biology. (The fact that this person claims to 'be 'nonbinary' is sufficient IMO to disregard everything they say on this subject, but anyway.) In particular, 1.7% of the population is NOT intersex.
This claim originates from Anne Fausto-Sterling; in reality the true figure is about 1/100th of that https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10. ... ode=hjsr20
Arguing that 'This is why the penis and vagina do not exist as a binary, but rather, as a spectrum that includes the following' is idiotic in the extreme. They aren't even related structures; the penis and the clitoris are related, but the upper part of the vagina is formed from the Müllerian ducts, which regress in the presence of anti-Müllerian hormone in males.
The process of sexual development is strictly binary:
That there are genetic errors and such like that can cause parts of this to go wrong is indubitable, but the existence of conjoined twins does not mean that we have two heads.
Sex is binary and this is true across the animal kingdom; I castrate my dog to stop him roaming and I sterilise my bitch to prevent unwanted pregnancy. These are not too much difference in humans. The fact that there are differences of behaviour within the binary classes of 'dog' and 'bitch', does not mean that these are non-binary. Humans produce sperm or eggs; never both.
The fact that some men might wear dresses and enjoy knitting does not mean that they are women simply because they adopt certain manners stereotypically associated with women.
It is true that people who are biologically male but who have experienced some genetic mutation might on average exhibit behaviours or appearance closer to female because
of that mutation, but this is not a gotcha in the slightest - there is an absolute and testable biological explanation. For example, my dog is less aggressive after castration because he has almost no testosterone after , and a person who has never produced testosterone because of a DSD might appear and act in a way that is typically female - we shouldn't be surprised by this, and given this clear biological, chemical cause, then we would say 'not withstanding that you have male (XY) chromosomes, the lack of male hormones compared to normal males, and your female socialization from birth, means that you are socially female'.
None of these attempts, however, to appropriate biological conditions to suggest that sex is somehow arbitrary are successful, because when we are talking about transgender people, we are talking about people with normal sexual development, who might, as in autogynephilia, exhibit a sexual paraphalia of arousal when wearing women's clothes, having breasts, etc. Caitlyn Jenner reports stealing Kendall/Kylie Jenner's underwear, to the extent that they put up CCTVhttps://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/c ... ent/62376/
While Caitlyn might be happier 'living as a woman', stealing your daughter's underwear is an unmistakably male behaviour. Bruce Jenner won medals only possible because of his male physique. While Caitlyn Jenner might now 'be a woman', this doesn't seem to be significantly different to a zebra poodle:
Said poodle still behaves exactly like a poodle, no matter what it looks like.
Likewise Jane Fae, formerly John Ozimek, might turn up to a meeting knitting
in Zebra-Poodle fashion, but that doesn't mean that when we read John's copious writings in defence of 'extreme pornography' and how to hide it on one's hard drive. https://www.theregister.com/2009/01/24/ ... ve/?page=2
and his relationship with the mother of his son https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/arti ... e-Fae.html
that we could possibly apprehend this person as anything other than male.
The 'Cade Hildreth' article cites a lot of noble savage rubbish such as 'Two-Spirited People', as if the regressive pigeonholing of male homosexuals (never females, who in typical sex-binary fashion are not afforded that opportunity) into jobs as prostitutes and wearing an impression of female clothing, is somehow proof of enlightenment, as if your sexual preferences should dictate what clothes you wear and how you go out on the street. There is a 'third gender' here in Indonesia and it presents a very narrow pigeonhole in life. And in any case such 'third genders' are well-understood as a subset of men - in most countries relationships are still predicated on the production of an heir, and everyone understands very well that sexual reproduction is perfectly binary, no matter what we might be told about 'transgender men giving birth', they only do so because they have female biology....