Challenge to Natural England Killing of Wild Birds

[mnichols]

It's still over run with rabbits/crows/rats/squirrels/pigeons/corvids/fox etc

That's one of the most horrible comments I've ever read

Is that how you justify killing another animal for your pleasure?

They are living, breathing, sentient animals. You are not doing a service. You're not doing anyone a favour. You shouldn't get to decide what should live and what should die. Or how many of each species there should be. You are murdering animals for your pleasure and then trying to justify it.

Nature is not over run with animals. We share the planet with them.

[100%JR]

It's still over run with rabbits/crows/rats/squirrels/pigeons/corvids/fox etc

That's one of the most horrible comments I've ever read

Is that how you justify killing another animal for your pleasure?

They are living, breathing, sentient animals. You are not doing a service. You're not doing anyone a favour. You shouldn't get to decide what should live and what should die. Or how many of each species there should be. You are murdering animals for your pleasure and then trying to justify it.

Nature is not over run with animals. We share the planet with them.

Rewind a bit there.
Reread my posts.
I haven’t shot/killed anything for years.
< Snip >

[reohn2]

From my limited experience of organised shoots (none) the kills are not left to rot but taken home and eaten ... any not wanted find their way into butchers and game dealers for consumption by humans ....

Or have got this terribly wrong, are they left to rot ????

The dogs are just there for a walk ?

Do tell ...

You seem to miss the point,that birds are reared to be shot for 'sport' it's a business for 'sport' in the same way dog or cock fighting or Badger baiting are businesses for 'sport'.
And yes some do escape injured as any animal can that isn't killed cleanly.
My whole point is that these animals,sentinet beings if you will,are killed primarily for 'SPORT' not primarily for food,that is a by product of the 'SPORT' and only applies to them that are shot cleanly.
Sorry for the capitals ie; shouting,but it's because you miss the point constantly for your own satisfaction.

To mention another 'sport',foxhunting and the ritual killing of foxes by dogs,illegal but persistently carried out all the same as an 'accidental' 'sport' when foxes are no real threat to modern man's livestock which can be protected from them by modern means.
They are pursued as a 'sport' and that alone.

[Bonefishblues]

I think that the point being made earlier thread is that on some of the largest commercial shoots there isn't a market for the many hundreds of birds that are shot during the day, the inference being that they are disposed of.

I have no issue with shoots where birds are reared and shot, provided they are eaten.

In some senses my own sport would be easier to justify if I did eat the fish I catch, as opposed to catching and releasing them.

[mnichols]

It's still over run with rabbits/crows/rats/squirrels/pigeons/corvids/fox etc

That's one of the most horrible comments I've ever read

Is that how you justify killing another animal for your pleasure?

They are living, breathing, sentient animals. You are not doing a service. You're not doing anyone a favour. You shouldn't get to decide what should live and what should die. Or how many of each species there should be. You are murdering animals for your pleasure and then trying to justify it.

Nature is not over run with animals. We share the planet with them.

Rewind a bit there.
Reread my posts.

I haven’t shot/killed anything for years.
Wind your neck in,calm down and actually read what is posted!

You also said ".He's not mentioned shooting at live targets and I don't think he will but if he did and we could get a Perm I'd not hesitate to take him."

I'm not sure we have any common ground if you refer to birds and animals as "live targets". In other words, something to be shot at and killed for your pleasure

[reohn2]

I think that the point being made earlier thread is that on some of the largest commercial shoots there isn't a market for the many hundreds of birds that are shot during the day, the inference being that they are disposed of.

I have no issue with shoots where birds are reared and shot, provided they are eaten.

In some senses my own sport would be easier to justify if I did eat the fish I catch, as opposed to catching and releasing them.

At least you give a concession to the fish by releasing them.
I needed to do a lot of deep thinking before stopping shooting and fishing,but when I did make up my mind stop it was the right one when I came of age.
I've thought about taking up target shooting since but decided against.
I get far more pleasure from watching the fish swim and the wildfowl fly when out for a bike ride,than I ever did catching and shotting them.

[Bonefishblues]

I think that the point being made earlier thread is that on some of the largest commercial shoots there isn't a market for the many hundreds of birds that are shot during the day, the inference being that they are disposed of.

I have no issue with shoots where birds are reared and shot, provided they are eaten.

In some senses my own sport would be easier to justify if I did eat the fish I catch, as opposed to catching and releasing them.

At least you give a concession to the fish by releasing them.
I needed to do a lot of deep thinking before stopping shooting and fishing,but when I did make up my mind stop it was the right one.
I've thought about taking up target shooting since but decided against.

Still plays on my conscience tbh.

[100%JR]

That's one of the most horrible comments I've ever read

Is that how you justify killing another animal for your pleasure?

They are living, breathing, sentient animals. You are not doing a service. You're not doing anyone a favour. You shouldn't get to decide what should live and what should die. Or how many of each species there should be. You are murdering animals for your pleasure and then trying to justify it.

Nature is not over run with animals. We share the planet with them.

Rewind a bit there.
Reread my posts.

I haven’t shot/killed anything for years.
Wind your neck in,calm down and actually read what is posted!

You also said ".He's not mentioned shooting at live targets and I don't think he will but if he did and we could get a Perm I'd not hesitate to take him."

I'm not sure we have any common ground if you refer to birds and animals as "live targets". In other words, something to be shot at and killed for your pleasure

Pleasure?
Not sure I follow you there.I’ve never mentioned “pleasure”.That’s entirely your presumption.

[reohn2]

Still plays on my conscience tbh.

There's a stream about a mile and a half from where I live that was nothing more than an open sewer when I was a lad,during my life it's gradually cleaned up due more modern environmental laws(EU?).
About five years ago I noticed small fish in it and my heart lept,since then those fish have grown to be Chub over 3lb+ and a smattering 1lb+ Perch.
Let them swim

[Cyril Haearn]

Catching fish (for fun?), then releasing them seems a bit perverse, one suspects many die soon after from injuries and shock
..
Hunting can be quite dangerous for hunters too, especially those "brave" ones who do NOT pick on beasts smaller than themselves!
Many a hunter has been despatched by a half-dead boar or tiger

[Ben@Forest]

Catching fish (for fun?), then releasing them seems a bit perverse, one suspects many die soon after from injuries and shock

The experience of coarse fishing where the same carp are caught time and again - to the extent that the owners of the fishery or regular anglers have named them - would seem to disprove this theory.

I think the broader point is that we are all responsible for killing animals through human development, those who indulge in countryside pursuits often want to retain countryside which may not be pristine but helps some species and, in 20 or 50 years time may be managed in a more naturalistic fashion. But if you want a retail park, or football ground or even a cycle path alongside an existing country road that little bit of green is lost forever.

[landsurfer]

Sorry for the capitals ie; shouting,but it's because you miss the point constantly for your own satisfaction.

Possibly satisfaction is the wrong word, as individuals we seem to have very different views of the world and all in it... long may that endure ... debate and healthy disagreement are an essential part of any democracy ...

If only we lived in one .....

[mnichols]

Rewind a bit there.
Reread my posts.

I haven’t shot/killed anything for years.
Wind your neck in,calm down and actually read what is posted!

You also said ".He's not mentioned shooting at live targets and I don't think he will but if he did and we could get a Perm I'd not hesitate to take him."

I'm not sure we have any common ground if you refer to birds and animals as "live targets". In other words, something to be shot at and killed for your pleasure

Pleasure?
Not sure I follow you there.I’ve never mentioned “pleasure”.That’s entirely your presumption.

Enlightened me, given the context of your post that has a forest 'over run' with animals, and you 'wouldn't hesitate' to take your son to shoot 'live targets' what is your motivation?

[Bonefishblues]

Catching fish (for fun?), then releasing them seems a bit perverse, one suspects many die soon after from injuries and shock

The experience of coarse fishing where the same carp are caught time and again - to the extent that the owners of the fishery or regular anglers have named them - would seem to disprove this theory.

They are. The careful handling and in the case particularly of larger fish, and their revival for however long it takes means that this can be minimised.

[Oldjohnw]

I fish for trout. Many are tagged so we know they live on. Barbless hooks and not taking them out of water at all.

Is rearing pheasants and shooting them for the table different to rearing pigs/lambs and shooting them?