Extinction Rebellion

[Tangled Metal]

On the other hand there was the online news piece that I read about people owning EVs for some time and using it without issues and for long journeys not too differently from how they used their previous ICEs.

It's not all there, there's issues for sure, but picking one case send condemning it. Round my way EVs are starting to become popular. At the university there's a lot of places for EVs to charge. Not all being used. There's ev charging points appearing in supermarket car parks, street parking, hotels with open access for non residents, etc. Load the apps and plan your journey. Get there and there's an issue well check the apps again.

5 different accounts? Really? 5 minutes to set each one up I guess, hardly an issue. Broken charging points is an issue but report and move on. Blocked points well another problem but if on public streets it's enforcement issue which we all know is low priority. You just learn to cope. It's important enough to just get on with it.

[kwackers]

On the other hand there was the online news piece that I read about people owning EVs for some time and using it without issues and for long journeys not too differently from how they used their previous ICEs.

It's not all there, there's issues for sure, but picking one case send condemning it. Round my way EVs are starting to become popular. At the university there's a lot of places for EVs to charge. Not all being used. There's ev charging points appearing in supermarket car parks, street parking, hotels with open access for non residents, etc. Load the apps and plan your journey. Get there and there's an issue well check the apps again.

5 different accounts? Really? 5 minutes to set each one up I guess, hardly an issue. Broken charging points is an issue but report and move on. Blocked points well another problem but if on public streets it's enforcement issue which we all know is low priority. You just learn to cope. It's important enough to just get on with it.

I know lots of folk that use EV's now. It's no biggie travelling the length and breadth of the country.

Things are changing fast, last time I commented on EV's a couple of months ago there were 5 charging stations within a mile of my house, in a months time there'll be 15.
Around work there are a number which are part of the lampposts.

Most have card payment to so no need for accounts - although you do pay through the nose if you don't have one.

One thing I noticed is a lot of folk register their chargers for 'public' use (as in if they're not using them you can roll up, pay a bit of cash and charge on their charger) which is pretty cool.
(I think there's an app for it)

[Cugel]

Does all this really matter? We've only been on the earth a dog-watch. Million years or so. Does it matter what we do?

Stegosaurus was already fossilised when Tyrannosaurus came along, then they were wiped out by an asteroid.

Matter to who? It'll matter to our children, probably .... certainly to our grandchildren.

Of course, if it doesn't matter to you, it shouldn't matter to anything or anybody, eh? The technical term for your condition, btw, is solipsism.

Cugel

[reohn2]

Does all this really matter? We've only been on the earth a dog-watch. Million years or so. Does it matter what we do?.....

Ultimately not,but relatively very much so.

Life on earth will recover no doubt.
I fear there will be quite a lot of human suffering on the way.

Which will most affect the poor and powerless,and will begin with the lowest lying lands Bangladesh ,etc....

[pwa]

On the other hand there was the online news piece that I read about people owning EVs for some time and using it without issues and for long journeys not too differently from how they used their previous ICEs.

It's not all there, there's issues for sure, but picking one case send condemning it. Round my way EVs are starting to become popular. At the university there's a lot of places for EVs to charge. Not all being used. There's ev charging points appearing in supermarket car parks, street parking, hotels with open access for non residents, etc. Load the apps and plan your journey. Get there and there's an issue well check the apps again.

5 different accounts? Really? 5 minutes to set each one up I guess, hardly an issue. Broken charging points is an issue but report and move on. Blocked points well another problem but if on public streets it's enforcement issue which we all know is low priority. You just learn to cope. It's important enough to just get on with it.

"You just learn to cope"
That man, with his family in the car, was unable to charge at motorway services as planned so left the M5 to go to a charging point in Stroud, which turned out not to work. So he went to another in the area. Then another. In Gloucester he found one, so was able to charge at last. After a lot of stress. Would you sign up for that with your family in the car and still a long way from home? The infra as it is right now is not up to the job.

[reohn2]

We live on a beautiful planet with an incredibly intricate and beautiful biome which has evolved over many millions of years. We have grown into a marvellous complicated animal, evolved to suit this planet, which is the only one we know of at all comparable.
Instead of valuing this unique home, we have treated it like a rubbish dump, and are trashing its systems, out of greed, but not out of ignorance.
We are destroying the marvellous plants and animals co-evolved to live here.
The upheaval to what we call civilisation will be colossal.
Seems a pity, and we should be ashamed of this wanton vandalism.

Well said.

[Vorpal]

That man, with his family in the car, was unable to charge at motorway services as planned so left the M5 to go to a charging point in Stroud, which turned out not to work. So he went to another in the area. Then another. In Gloucester he found one, so was able to charge at last. After a lot of stress. Would you sign up for that with your family in the car and still a long way from home? The infra as it is right now is not up to the job.

Well, but I've has things like that happen a few times with petrol stations at night, or on Sunday when in unfamiliar areas. I suppose that someone who lived nearby wouldn't have had any problem. One time, I saw a one of those signs, saying 'services XX miles', only when I got there, they had a hotel restaurant, and toilets, but the petrol station was being refurbished. I went off at another junction & didn't find anything, then I found a closed one. It took me a while to find something open. I wasn't in any real danger of running out, but I was driving a hire car, so I was a little uncertain how accurate the computer was.

[Mick F]

Does all this really matter? We've only been on the earth a dog-watch. Million years or so. Does it matter what we do?

Stegosaurus was already fossilised when Tyrannosaurus came along, then they were wiped out by an asteroid.

Matter to who? It'll matter to our children, probably .... certainly to our grandchildren.

Of course, if it doesn't matter to you, it shouldn't matter to anything or anybody, eh? The technical term for your condition, btw, is solipsism.

I didn't say or profess that it didn't matter.
I asked if all this really mattered.

Are you reading more into my words than wot I rote?

[Cugel]

Does all this really matter? We've only been on the earth a dog-watch. Million years or so. Does it matter what we do?

Stegosaurus was already fossilised when Tyrannosaurus came along, then they were wiped out by an asteroid.

Matter to who? It'll matter to our children, probably .... certainly to our grandchildren.

Of course, if it doesn't matter to you, it shouldn't matter to anything or anybody, eh? The technical term for your condition, btw, is solipsism.

I didn't say or profess that it didn't matter.
I asked if all this really mattered.

Are you reading more into my words than wot I rote?

You rote some words in the form of a rhetorical question wot may be accurately shortened to your embedded answer, which is the statement: "It doesn't matter".

Therefore I am reading into you your words no more than what you rote.

Cugel, rhetoric-parser.

[pwa]

That man, with his family in the car, was unable to charge at motorway services as planned so left the M5 to go to a charging point in Stroud, which turned out not to work. So he went to another in the area. Then another. In Gloucester he found one, so was able to charge at last. After a lot of stress. Would you sign up for that with your family in the car and still a long way from home? The infra as it is right now is not up to the job.

Well, but I've has things like that happen a few times with petrol stations at night, or on Sunday when in unfamiliar areas. I suppose that someone who lived nearby wouldn't have had any problem. One time, I saw a one of those signs, saying 'services XX miles', only when I got there, they had a hotel restaurant, and toilets, but the petrol station was being refurbished. I went off at another junction & didn't find anything, then I found a closed one. It took me a while to find something open. I wasn't in any real danger of running out, but I was driving a hire car, so I was a little uncertain how accurate the computer was.

But then he went around his home town, with a tv journalist, visiting charging points and finding a high rate of problems. The message was that while the idea behind electric vehicles is a good one, at the moment the infrastructure is poor and needs a lot of improvement. The man was put forward as an example chosen from numerous people who had experienced similar things with electric cars. This wasn't a dismissal of the technology and its possibilities, but a call for more investment.

[kwackers]

But then he went around his home town, with a tv journalist, visiting charging points and finding a high rate of problems. The message was that while the idea behind electric vehicles is a good one, at the moment the infrastructure is poor and needs a lot of improvement. The man was put forward as an example chosen from numerous people who had experienced similar things with electric cars. This wasn't a dismissal of the technology and its possibilities, but a call for more investment.

You've also got to make allowances for the fact that for everyone that has issues there are hundreds that don't.
Folk who just get on and have no issues are the silent majority in pretty much anything.
For the majority of EV owners the infrastructure is probably just fine simply because they don't do those sorts of distances. What's going to be interesting is figuring out just how much infrastructure is going to be needed given folk will be fairly keen to use their 5p cheap rate lecky to charge up at night.
Obviously more even distribution is required with more fast chargers on motorways and A roads, but local charging is the interesting part of this equation.

I noticed at the Trafford Centre last night someone had parked their expensive ICE Merc 4x4 in the charging bays and because they were oh so very important they'd decided to do that thing important people do to prevent others getting close to their stuff and parked it across two bays.

Like most things better policing is required.
But judging by the increasing amount of whining on car forums it looks as if there's a growing number of people being fined for parking in EV charging bays and that includes EV owners who aren't charging or have finished charging (fast chargers). I believe in the latter case the charging company can penalise you automatically anyway.

[niggle]

The vast majority of EV owners have a charger at home, which is virtually 100% reliable, very cheap compared to public charging points and becomes more and more possible to use exclusively as EV real ranges improve, now up to at least 150 miles for the vast majority of models, some considerably more. For owners who have off street parking on their own property fitting a home charger is a no brainer, and for them the charging infrastructure is only really needed for those long journeys in excess of the vehicle range which most of us don't do on a regular basis.

Any newspaper or TV review with somebody who tries an EV out for a week or whatever with no charging at home will not give a true picture to what it is like for an owner with a home charger, more like what it would be like if you only have on street parking, for which situation I would agree that EVs are still not that great in terms of cost and convenience, unless you have charging available at work or live near a free charger as found in Scotland, in England/Wales at some Lidl stores and some other local council run schemes.

Other supermarkets, retail parks, town centres, enertainment hubs etc. are starting to install chargers, free or cheap, and this is a better model than the fuel station model as charging takes time, so it is better done somewhere where you/your family are busy doing something else while the car is parked up.

If you regularly drive 200 miles plus without stopping for a break then EVs might not be for you also, or maybe you need to consider whether how you travel long distance is safe or healthy.

I have owned and run a 2015 Nissan Leaf with a rather modest real range of 60-70 miles, and day to day it was superb, an absolute pleasure to drive as well as so cheap to run and convenient, but long journeys took patience and planning. The main provider of charging points on the motorway network is Ecotricity, and in my experience they are one of the more reliable, though still not absolutely fault free and at busy times you might have to wait your turn.

[pwa]

For the majority of EV owners the infrastructure is probably just fine simply because they don't do those sorts of distances.

Yes, I thought that. The point that was being made was that while you can use such vehicles for short commutes with no issues you cannot undertake long journeys in the relaxed way you would with a petrol or diesel engine. You cannot rely on a functioning, available and compatible charging point being at the motorway services when you get there. You can think you have it all planned but find you have to rethink when that essential top-up turns out not to be possible where you thought it would be. Not an issue for folk who use their electric cars purely for short trips from home, as many must, but a barrier to those wanting to use these vehicles for a variety of journey types. This needs fixing if we want more people to be choosing electric.

[Mick F]

Plug-in Hybrids are the way forward for now. No range anxieties, and 100+mpg economy.

Our Hybrid isn't plug-in and we can only do a couple of miles on EV. Even then, the speed has to be low and the route level. Downhill, there's no limit of course.

Plug-in Hybrids can go for 20miles just on EV perhaps.

[Cugel]

Plug-in Hybrids are the way forward for now. No range anxieties, and 100+mpg economy.

Our Hybrid isn't plug-in and we can only do a couple of miles on EV. Even then, the speed has to be low and the route level. Downhill, there's no limit of course.

Plug-in Hybrids can go for 20miles just on EV perhaps.

We have a one o' them PHEVs that will do about 24 miles including about 1200M of up and the same down, on one full battery charge. We haven't tested it on the flat yet, as there isn't much of that in West Wales but I suspect it would do about 30 miles, the usual amount displayed by the guess-ometer after a full charge.

In practice we charge it every other day or sometimes every three days. It does two to three of our everyday journeys into Brechfa Forest per charge (to walk the collies). The journeys are between 12 and 8 mile 'round trips up into the woody hills from down in the Teifi valley. Occasionally (about once every 6 weeks) we go to Carmarthen and back, which is about 46 miles per 'round trip. This requires use of the petrol engine to run the generator which feeds the lecky motors. The instrument thingy tells us that. using a full charge to the battery before we start, the mpg is around 150-170mpg for the 'round trip.

There's also a thingy that tells you how much of your accumulating mileage has been done with battery-only and how much with petrol engine on. So far, over 6 months of ownership, it's 97% battery-only with 3% engine use. This is just enough to stop the thing from insisting you turn on the engine so the fuel doesn't go stale and/or the engine seize up through non-use.

So far no long trip more than that 46 miles. I like it here and feel no compulsion to go further, unless its on the bike.

Cugel