Extinction Rebellion

[Mick F]

Excellent post.

In the winter, our fuel consumption drops quite a bit to perhaps 48mpg due to the heater being supplied by the engine water.
Summer, we get 60mpg locally.
Climate Control/Aircon is electric off the traction battery. Ditto power steering.

Hills everywhere here of course, so the engine runs quite a bit. We could get into the village without the engine (providing we don't want to keep warm) but we couldn't get back without the engine to climb the hill.

[kwackers]

Plug-in Hybrids are the way forward for now. No range anxieties, and 100+mpg economy.

Our Hybrid isn't plug-in and we can only do a couple of miles on EV. Even then, the speed has to be low and the route level. Downhill, there's no limit of course.

Plug-in Hybrids can go for 20miles just on EV perhaps.

20 miles just isn't enough, even 30 is pretty poor I think 50 is much more like it.

My experience of PHEV's is that they're underpowered unless you're using them in hybrid mode. They're neither great electric vehicles nor great petrol vehicles.
With newer EV's now offering 200 miles plus I think PHEV's are trying to solve a problem that doesn't really exist and pure EV's are a much better drive too.
(Given PHEV's are struggling for market share I think most folk probably agree with me).

[Cugel]

Plug-in Hybrids are the way forward for now. No range anxieties, and 100+mpg economy.

Our Hybrid isn't plug-in and we can only do a couple of miles on EV. Even then, the speed has to be low and the route level. Downhill, there's no limit of course.

Plug-in Hybrids can go for 20miles just on EV perhaps.

20 miles just isn't enough, even 30 is pretty poor I think 50 is much more like it.

My experience of PHEV's is that they're underpowered unless you're using them in hybrid mode. They're neither great electric vehicles nor great petrol vehicles.
With newer EV's now offering 200 miles plus I think PHEV's are trying to solve a problem that doesn't really exist and pure EV's are a much better drive too.
(Given PHEV's are struggling for market share I think most folk probably agree with me).

The battery range for a PHEV that's adequate depends on the owner and the usage. I read somewhere or other that most trips in most cars are well short of 30 miles. In practice it's enough for the likes of me & t'ladywife to use everyday in the countryside ... but it does depend on having a charger at home that can be used on every return there if necessary (although we charge only once every 2 or 3 days). Achieving this might be difficult for some, including perhaps some who could manage battery-only commuting if the far end of their journey (public or works car park) had a charger. Many places don't.

The power thing you mention is irrelevant in this day & age, really. Why does anyone need more than 100 horses other than to drive like a loon? One aspect of driving with a low capacity battery is that you stop any kind of loon-driving in favour of an overall slower pace, thinking well ahead (to make the most of both battery and regenerative braking recharge) and generally enjoying a quiet & relaxing driving experience rather than than one fraught with angst and dangerous jousting with other car-loons. These days, I rarely exceed 55mph and it's usually around 40mph in the delimited roads. Saves battery (and fuel) too, that.

But you're right that a full electric is probably going to be a better option. It would be now for us, if there was one that was as versatile as a Mitsubishi PHEV. A full electric of that configuration would currently cost us 2 - 3X as much to buy, though.

Cugel

[kwackers]

The battery range for a PHEV that's adequate depends on the owner and the usage. I read somewhere or other that most trips in most cars are well short of 30 miles. In practice it's enough for the likes of me & t'ladywife to use everyday in the countryside ... but it does depend on having a charger at home that can be used on every return there if necessary (although we charge only once every 2 or 3 days). Achieving this might be difficult for some, including perhaps some who could manage battery-only commuting if the far end of their journey (public or works car park) had a charger. Many places don't.

The power thing you mention is irrelevant in this day & age, really. Why does anyone need more than 100 horses other than to drive like a loon? One aspect of driving with a low capacity battery is that you stop any kind of loon-driving in favour of an overall slower pace, thinking well ahead (to make the most of both battery and regenerative braking recharge) and generally enjoying a quiet & relaxing driving experience rather than than one fraught with angst and dangerous jousting with other car-loons. These days, I rarely exceed 55mph and it's usually around 40mph in the delimited roads. Saves battery (and fuel) too, that.

But you're right that a full electric is probably going to be a better option. It would be now for us, if there was one that was as versatile as a Mitsubishi PHEV. A full electric of that configuration would currently cost us 2 - 3X as much to buy, though.

Cugel

I think if the cars I drove had done 50 real world miles on a charge I'd have forgiven them their foibles because they'd have done 90% of the driving we do in EV mode. Living mid way between two cities I really need it to be able to drive to them there and back and that needs 50 miles range.

Perhaps it's also a bit unfair to say they were underpowered, its more that they didn't feel comfortable in either EV or IC mode, I felt like they were working hard for normal driving. In hybrid mode they were fine, but I really want them to be in EV mode most of the time.

Like all things though if you can make it work for you then it's great. For me they didn't really cut it, 50 miles range and I might have been tempted but by the time they've got that range I suspect EV's will make even more sense.

I've bunged a few refundable deposits on a number of EV's at the moment so at some future point I need to make a decision although given the current supply and demand situation that could be anytime in the next 10 years...

[niggle]

Cugel would a Nissan eNV200 5 or 7 seater MPV not meet your needs? Might be a bit more expensive to change right now though.

One advantage of a full EV over the PHEVs is that they have a much less complicated drive train and therefore better reliability and lower service needs/costs, an EV drive train needs virtually no servicing ever, only the brakes etc. need maintaining.

[Cyril Haearn]

Cars are carp, electric cars too, please to get back on topic

[kwackers]

Cars are carp, electric cars too, please to get back on topic

Carp are fish, fish are definitely not cars, therefore cars aren't carp.

[Cyril Haearn]

The Grauniad reports that XR plans a protest, a million angry citizens are expected, in London on 19.X
Hundreds of buses shall take protesters to the capital
(I thought London was quite easy to reach by train )
The cops are ready to Deal With the protesters

See you there?

[Cyril Haearn]

Cars are carp, electric cars too, please to get back on topic

Carp are fish, fish are definitely not cars, therefore cars aren't carp.

Carp are bottom feeders, they eat the muck, that is where the name comes from

[mjr]

Recent e cars discussion at viewtopic.php?f=55&t=132758&p=1405896#p1405896 for people who want to continue that aspect.

[661-Pete]

Well - the Met Police have acted in true Hong Kong spirit, and aggressively cleared Traf Sq of the XR protesters. I think this says a lot about what English values regarding decency and peaceful protest, have descended to.

I propose to join in the People's Vote march on Saturday. I plan to carry a poster which, as well as carrying a prominent anti-Brex**it message, also contains a token of support for the XR movement, along with the XR logo. After all we have a lot in common.

Will this get me arrested?

If I stop posting after Saturday, try the local prisons....

[Vorpal]

What kind of crazy world do we live in that something which kills people every day (motorists) are allowed in London, but peaceful protestors are not?

[Cyril Haearn]

Right again Vorpal, crazy
Maybe the protest could be quietly moved to the prom at Brighton, with Pete as Organisator

[pwa]

Well - the Met Police have acted in true Hong Kong spirit, and aggressively cleared Traf Sq of the XR protesters. I think this says a lot about what English values regarding decency and peaceful protest, have descended to.

I propose to join in the People's Vote march on Saturday. I plan to carry a poster which, as well as carrying a prominent anti-Brex**it message, also contains a token of support for the XR movement, along with the XR logo. After all we have a lot in common.

Will this get me arrested?

If I stop posting after Saturday, try the local prisons....

Won't you just confuse things by trying to present two messages?

[Cugel]

What kind of crazy world do we live in that something which kills people every day (motorists) are allowed in London, but peaceful protestors are not?

Are you suggesting that a motorist - or even a rat-running wage slave on foot - should be delayed just because they are off to some activity that's murdering the biosphere!? I have reported you for un-English attitoods (well, un-Little England attitoods) to The New Tory Trotskyist Party. Expect a visit any minute now from the BoJo polis, who will be wearing bovver boots and bowler hats as well as natty westcots. They will give you a taste of droog whilst those motorists you delayed will be able to go back to being delayed by all the other motorists instead of by you and your snowflake ilk. They will now be able to once more race the couple of hundred yards between traffic light jams, gesticulating and yelling at others doing similar, instead of at you lily-livered tree-hugging namby-pamby [That's enough Inspector Grimm mode for now - the forum loon-limitation monitor].

Cugel