Extinction Rebellion

[reohn2]

And sooner or later folk get a bit cheesed off and begin thinking "Okay, you've made your point...". Maybe that is the stage we are at now.

Yep, l think there are a lot of unintended consequences with such actions, including strikes or the threat of strikes. In 2018 we were intending to visit France travelling by Eurostar and then using domestic rail services, something we've done before.

But the French rail unions were carrying out strikes and were threatening to do so into the future, it was brought home to me by being at St Pancras and seeing a third of all Eurostar services cancelled.

So we decided to fly to Germany and hire a car instead - so the Germans got the benefit of our cash and we weren't as green as we'd have liked (we've done Eurostar three times so far) - all because we weren't prepared to have our holiday ruined by strike action. Unlucky for the French.

That's proof the French rail strike worked.

[661-Pete]

But the French rail unions were carrying out strikes and were threatening to do so into the future, it was brought home to me by being at St Pancras and seeing a third of all Eurostar services cancelled.

The French rail strikes were about changes in working conditions which the unions perceived as paving the way towards privatisation of SNCF. A creditable cause, maybe, but certainly nothing to do with Climate Change or XR. Unless, that is, the threatened privatisation were to drive more French commuters into their cars.

On the other hand, is there any evidence of XR protesters wilfully obstructing rail or tram transport in London?

The two situations are nowhere near equivalent.

Sorry if your holiday was disrupted. So were thousands of Thomas Cook holidaymakers. Are they blaming XR for that?

[reohn2]

661-Pete
I think Ben was making a more general point about demonstrations of which workers strikes are the same,and not just about XR or climate change.
AFAICS demonstrating highlight's a problem in the case of the French rail strike he mentioned it was a specific group of people work whether that be conditions or pay.XR's demo is about the problems we'll all suffer at the rate we're going and which governments around the world are evidently only paying lip service to and in some cases heading in the opposite direction.

[pwa]

661-Pete
I think Ben was making a more general point about demonstrations of which workers strikes are the same,and not just about XR or climate change.
AFAICS demonstrating highlight's a problem in the case of the French rail strike he mentioned it was a specific group of people work whether that be conditions or pay.XR's demo is about the problems we'll all suffer at the rate we're going and which governments around the world are evidently only paying lip service to and in some cases heading in the opposite direction.

As I am sure the folk leading the XR protests are aware, there is always a dilemma about this sort of street obstruction protest in that it makes the news and gets the point across, but it also involves creating problems for people who just want to use the Number 19 bus to get home from work. And people on other streets not directly obstructed will be experiencing even higher levels of traffic due to displacement. There is always collateral damage with this sort of protest.

[reohn2]

661-Pete
I think Ben was making a more general point about demonstrations of which workers strikes are the same,and not just about XR or climate change.
AFAICS demonstrating highlight's a problem in the case of the French rail strike he mentioned it was a specific group of people work whether that be conditions or pay.XR's demo is about the problems we'll all suffer at the rate we're going and which governments around the world are evidently only paying lip service to and in some cases heading in the opposite direction.

As I am sure the folk leading the XR protests are aware, there is always a dilemma about this sort of street obstruction protest in that it makes the news and gets the point across, but it also involves creating problems for people who just want to use the Number 19 bus to get home from work. And people on other streets not directly obstructed will be experiencing even higher levels of traffic due to displacement. There is always collateral damage with this sort of protest.

Demonstration such as this are meant to disrupt but peacefully,such demos are born out of the frustration of a lack of action by government and as you say there'll be collateral damage,people will be inconvenienced.
The point is whether those who demonstrate think it's worth the effort and disruption in their cause,in this instance XR think and I have to agree,their cause is a just one.
I think a lot of people agree but lack leadership on such an important topic,in fact the most important topic facing the world today and IMO that's because the wway the world is being run and has been run since the industrial revolution is one of trashing it to the point where we fear for our survival as a species,andnthat's before we even think of the elimination of many other species we've been responsible for wiping out.
The world is unbalanced and we've caused that imbalance,it's way beyond time to begin to address that rebalance it in anyway we can,XR is one of the pointers toward that path IMO.

[pwa]

661-Pete
I think Ben was making a more general point about demonstrations of which workers strikes are the same,and not just about XR or climate change.
AFAICS demonstrating highlight's a problem in the case of the French rail strike he mentioned it was a specific group of people work whether that be conditions or pay.XR's demo is about the problems we'll all suffer at the rate we're going and which governments around the world are evidently only paying lip service to and in some cases heading in the opposite direction.

As I am sure the folk leading the XR protests are aware, there is always a dilemma about this sort of street obstruction protest in that it makes the news and gets the point across, but it also involves creating problems for people who just want to use the Number 19 bus to get home from work. And people on other streets not directly obstructed will be experiencing even higher levels of traffic due to displacement. There is always collateral damage with this sort of protest.

Demonstration such as this are meant to disrupt but peacefully,such demos are born out of the frustration of a lack of action by government and as you say there'll be collateral damage,people will be inconvenienced.
The point is whether those who demonstrate think it's worth the effort and disruption in their cause,in this instance XR think and I have to agree,their cause is a just one.
I think a lot of people agree but lack leadership on such an important topic,in fact the most important topic facing the world today and IMO that's because the wway the world is being run and has been run since the industrial revolution is one of trashing it to the point where we fear for our survival as a species,andnthat's before we even think of the elimination of many other species we've been responsible for wiping out.
The world is unbalanced and we've caused that imbalance,it's way beyond time to begin to address that rebalance it in anyway we can,XR is one of the pointers toward that path IMO.

I'm generally in agreement. But I'm not so sure about tactics. If we want a clean and healthy planet we need folk to use less stuff. And that, surely, means a blockade of ports at Felixtowe and Harwich, and disruption to Heathrow.

[reohn2]

I'm generally in agreement. But I'm not so sure about tactics. If we want a clean and healthy planet we need folk to use less stuff. And that, surely, means a blockade of ports at Felixtowe and Harwich, and disruption to Heathrow.

The idea is to draw attention to global warming and pollution(in it's many forms)the capital is the seat of UK government and the most densely populated,so it's understandably the place to protest.
Who's to say that blockading ports and airports(there already has been protests at London City Airport) may not be on the agenda though blocking sea ports maybe a more difficult prospect with all the security attached due to terrorist threat and they perhaps draw a line at being potrayed intentionally or unintentionally by media and government as a terroist organisation.

[Ben@Forest]

But the French rail unions were carrying out strikes and were threatening to do so into the future, it was brought home to me by being at St Pancras and seeing a third of all Eurostar services cancelled.

The French rail strikes were about changes in working conditions which the unions perceived as paving the way towards privatisation of SNCF. A creditable cause, maybe...

Or maybe not the Macron government was trying to make the SNCF EU-compliant as its practices were restrictive and under EU rules, illegal. And we know the EU always does things right . As far as l remember Macron won, plus another consequence of the strike was more investment in autonomous train technology in France.

My anecdote was nothing to do with XR or even striking per se, simply that such actions change people's behaviour. We and maybe 10,000 other British people decided to avoid France because of rail strikes. Maybe 100,000 worldwide. It does affect businesses.

We are about to host friends from NZ. They were originally not set to come at this time because of closeness to the Brexit date and because of XR they are spending no time in London. That's business lost in London that's going somewhere else in the UK (good news l think!)

[pwa]

XR protesters are targeting the Tube this morning. Public Transport! They are trying to disrupt public transport. I am confused. Aren't we supposed to be doing something "green" and responsible if we choose public transport? Wouldn't the best public transport be run on electricity and be hidden underground?

[roubaixtuesday]

XR protesters are targeting the Tube this morning. Public Transport! They are trying to disrupt public transport. I am confused. Aren't we supposed to be doing something "green" and responsible if we choose public transport? Wouldn't the best public transport be run on electricity and be hidden underground?

You probably haven't understood their strategy, which is simply to be as disruptive as possible, making the tube an obvious target.

Conventional approaches of voting, lobbying, petitions and protest have failed because powerful political and economic interests prevent change. Our strategy is therefore one of non-violent, disruptive civil disobedience – a rebellion.

https://rebellion.earth/act-now/

Whether you agree this is a good strategy is another thing entirely, of course.

[661-Pete]

XR protesters are targeting the Tube this morning. Public Transport! They are trying to disrupt public transport. I am confused. Aren't we supposed to be doing something "green" and responsible if we choose public transport? Wouldn't the best public transport be run on electricity and be hidden underground?

Story here. I'm frankly really disappointed to read of this turn of events. All I can say is, I hope this action was taken by only a minority of XR activists. I shall be writing to our local XR organiser to make my views known.

As has been pointed out in the Br**** thread, no-one's perfect....

[pwa]

XR protesters are targeting the Tube this morning. Public Transport! They are trying to disrupt public transport. I am confused. Aren't we supposed to be doing something "green" and responsible if we choose public transport? Wouldn't the best public transport be run on electricity and be hidden underground?

Story here. I'm frankly really disappointed to read of this turn of events. All I can say is, I hope this action was taken by only a minority of XR activists. I shall be writing to our local XR organiser to make my views known.

As has been pointed out in the Br**** thread, no-one's perfect....

If it is a rogue group they need reeling in because you don't win hearts and minds by disrupting the lives of potential allies. Having a go at the Tube will just annoy everyone and convince people that they don't have a serious message.

This is an attack on public transport.

[reohn2]

XR protesters are targeting the Tube this morning. Public Transport! They are trying to disrupt public transport. I am confused. Aren't we supposed to be doing something "green" and responsible if we choose public transport? Wouldn't the best public transport be run on electricity and be hidden underground?

Story here. I'm frankly really disappointed to read of this turn of events. All I can say is, I hope this action was taken by only a minority of XR activists. I shall be writing to our local XR organiser to make my views known.

As has been pointed out in the Br**** thread, no-one's perfect....

That looked potentially very nasty indeed and whilst I don't condone such a protest by XR(seems counter to their stance IMO)I don't condone such violent action by people on the platform.

[Oldjohnw]

Nothing, however, invalidates the cause.

[reohn2]

Nothing, however, invalidates the cause.

The cause is a valid and justifiable one without doubt but unless XR's stance is one of none electrical travel such action is counter productive.