Extinction Rebellion

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reohn2
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby reohn2 » 15 Oct 2019, 10:02am

Vorpal wrote:What kind of crazy world do we live in that something which kills people every day (motorists) are allowed in London, but peaceful protestors are not?

It would be un-English to not allow people to sit in their cars in traffic jams pouring out pollution in any city with a heavy footfall.
And even more un-Enlish to allow people to protest peacefully against it :?

But of course according to some these un-English protesters are just blindly following a teenage girl with mental health issues who doesn't, according to one of the world's gangsters,er sorry,leaders,"understand how the adult world works!" :roll:
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pwa
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby pwa » 15 Oct 2019, 11:15am

To be fair, if people want to protest there are lots of wide open green spaces in central London where they could do that. But their intention is to block traffic. That is why it is contentious. Blocking the movement of other people going about their business. I have never been at ease with the idea of protesting by preventing others going about their normal business. It is exercising the freedom to protest in a way that denies someone else their freedom to use the highway. And sooner or later folk get a bit cheesed off and begin thinking "Okay, you've made your point...". Maybe that is the stage we are at now.

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661-Pete
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby 661-Pete » 15 Oct 2019, 11:34am

I'm just wondering, who are these "people going about their normal business"? Have the XR been blockading railway or tube stations? Have they been blockading cycle paths?

I don't know for sure, but I doubt it. No: the people who have been blocked from "going about their normal business" are almost overwhelmingly car drivers and passengers.

Yes I'm sure there are plenty of people who have an absolute necessity to drive into Central London, and who cannot avoid the junctions which have been blocked. But there must be plenty of others who have not.

And it's those who regularly drive in London (and presumably cough up the CC) who need a re-think...

Trying to shake up the old memory cells here: I think that the last time I actually drove into central London was around 2004. I was going to a shop near Baker Street, to collect a large (10") Newtonian telescope that I'd ordered. I'm afraid that's something you can't carry on a train - or a bike... :(
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
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brynpoeth
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby brynpoeth » 15 Oct 2019, 11:37am

You could get WVP white van person to deliver it
I can beat that, last drove in Llundain 1993, last changed trains there 2005 :wink:
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pwa
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby pwa » 15 Oct 2019, 11:53am

661-Pete wrote:I'm just wondering, who are these "people going about their normal business"? Have the XR been blockading railway or tube stations? Have they been blockading cycle paths?

I don't know for sure, but I doubt it. No: the people who have been blocked from "going about their normal business" are almost overwhelmingly car drivers and passengers.

Yes I'm sure there are plenty of people who have an absolute necessity to drive into Central London, and who cannot avoid the junctions which have been blocked. But there must be plenty of others who have not.

And it's those who regularly drive in London (and presumably cough up the CC) who need a re-think...

Trying to shake up the old memory cells here: I think that the last time I actually drove into central London was around 2004. I was going to a shop near Baker Street, to collect a large (10") Newtonian telescope that I'd ordered. I'm afraid that's something you can't carry on a train - or a bike... :(

That's one more time than me. I once cycled from Euston to Waterloo with all the camping gear on the bike.

But surely these road blocks are affecting buses too. And potentially obstructing emergency services. And people with disabilities who have to use a taxi. As for the other drivers, some may not need to be driving there but some probably do, especially if they have things to deliver.

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661-Pete
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby 661-Pete » 15 Oct 2019, 1:43pm

brynpoeth wrote:You could get WVP white van person to deliver it
I can beat that, last drove in Llundain 1993, last changed trains there 2005 :wink:
Perhaps I could. But I think you live a wee bit further away from the Smoke than I do....
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

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661-Pete
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby 661-Pete » 15 Oct 2019, 1:52pm

pwa wrote:
661-Pete wrote:I propose to join in the People's Vote march on Saturday. I plan to carry a poster which, as well as carrying a prominent anti-Brex**it message, also contains a token of support for the XR movement, along with the XR logo. After all we have a lot in common.

Won't you just confuse things by trying to present two messages?
Absolutely not. Why shouldn't I? The two movements have a lot in common. And if you want any further evidence, visit this page and click on "Boris Johnson". Also try out other politicians. Quite instructive...
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

pwa
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby pwa » 15 Oct 2019, 3:16pm

661-Pete wrote:
pwa wrote:
661-Pete wrote:I propose to join in the People's Vote march on Saturday. I plan to carry a poster which, as well as carrying a prominent anti-Brex**it message, also contains a token of support for the XR movement, along with the XR logo. After all we have a lot in common.

Won't you just confuse things by trying to present two messages?
Absolutely not. Why shouldn't I? The two movements have a lot in common. And if you want any further evidence, visit this page and click on "Boris Johnson". Also try out other politicians. Quite instructive...

The danger is that the message becomes messy and confused. Someone who might support you on one of those issues might not support you on the other.

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661-Pete
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby 661-Pete » 15 Oct 2019, 5:18pm

pwa wrote:The danger is that the message becomes messy and confused. Someone who might support you on one of those issues might not support you on the other.
Let them. Does it really matter? There are always side campaigns. In the big Stop The War march in 2003, many protesters carried "Free Palestine" posters. Not everyone on the march necessarily agreed with that one. And others carried "LGBT rights" posters and flags. Perhaps some disagreed with that. But it was all friendly.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

landsurfer
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby landsurfer » 15 Oct 2019, 5:23pm

brynpoeth wrote:You could get WVP white van person to deliver it


I volunteer ... Just swapped my Isuzu truck for this ..... I am now a fully paid up WVM ... :lol:

9 Seater and room for 3 bikes behind the seats .. and lots of room for the 6 of us ..... HUZZAH !!!!

IMG_2850.JPG
Last edited by landsurfer on 15 Oct 2019, 5:28pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's just like that, it's just the way it is.
The road goes on forever.

pwa
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby pwa » 15 Oct 2019, 5:27pm

661-Pete wrote:
pwa wrote:The danger is that the message becomes messy and confused. Someone who might support you on one of those issues might not support you on the other.
Let them. Does it really matter? There are always side campaigns. In the big Stop The War march in 2003, many protesters carried "Free Palestine" posters. Not everyone on the march necessarily agreed with that one. And others carried "LGBT rights" posters and flags. Perhaps some disagreed with that. But it was all friendly.


Okay. It was just a thought.

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661-Pete
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby 661-Pete » 15 Oct 2019, 5:49pm

landsurfer wrote:I volunteer ... Just swapped my Isuzu truck for this ..... I am now a fully paid up WVM ... :lol:

9 Seater and room for 3 bikes behind the seats .. and lots of room for the 6 of us ..... HUZZAH !!!!

IMG_2850.JPG
Of course, if you need that size of vehicle - go for it! Eventually, I'd like to suggest, swap it for an electric van - but the time is not yet right for that....

Anyway, it's not the van itself that's responsible for its bad reputation. It's the person behind the wheel. I'm sure you're not one of those...
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

landsurfer
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Location: Rotherham

Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby landsurfer » 15 Oct 2019, 6:08pm

661-Pete wrote:
landsurfer wrote:I volunteer ... Just swapped my Isuzu truck for this ..... I am now a fully paid up WVM ... :lol:

9 Seater and room for 3 bikes behind the seats .. and lots of room for the 6 of us ..... HUZZAH !!!!

IMG_2850.JPG
Of course, if you need that size of vehicle - go for it! Eventually, I'd like to suggest, swap it for an electric van - but the time is not yet right for that....

Anyway, it's not the van itself that's responsible for its bad reputation. It's the person behind the wheel. I'm sure you're not one of those...


We need the space with 6 and a regular 7th in the family ... I did look at electric vans but it's too early yet for them ... so Ford Transit WVM it is .... :)
It's just like that, it's just the way it is.
The road goes on forever.

Ben@Forest
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby Ben@Forest » 16 Oct 2019, 7:35am

pwa wrote:And sooner or later folk get a bit cheesed off and begin thinking "Okay, you've made your point...". Maybe that is the stage we are at now.


Yep, l think there are a lot of unintended consequences with such actions, including strikes or the threat of strikes. In 2018 we were intending to visit France travelling by Eurostar and then using domestic rail services, something we've done before.

But the French rail unions were carrying out strikes and were threatening to do so into the future, it was brought home to me by being at St Pancras and seeing a third of all Eurostar services cancelled.

So we decided to fly to Germany and hire a car instead - so the Germans got the benefit of our cash and we weren't as green as we'd have liked (we've done Eurostar three times so far) - all because we weren't prepared to have our holiday ruined by strike action. Unlucky for the French.

kwackers
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby kwackers » 16 Oct 2019, 8:59am

Ben@Forest wrote:Unlucky for the French.

Except that in the general scheme of things they probably don't care, the small amount of cash lost to folk like you is a teeny percentage of the total spent and if their strike action resulted in an overall improvement in some aspect of their lives then the long term gain may well easily outweigh that short term loss.