Extinction Rebellion

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Tangled Metal
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby Tangled Metal » 17 Apr 2019, 9:17pm

reohn2 wrote:
Labrat wrote:
reohn2 wrote:i don't think it's so much a "toys out of the pram" but more like protesting against a government that does nothing to very little,toward cutting pollution to a minimum.


Hmmm

https://www.energylivenews.com/2019/03/ ... nce-1890s/

How is it that almost all UK major cities and a big chunk of towns are presently breaking pollution levels set by our own government?

Simply put its different kinds of pollutants. International action on climate change centred around cutting greenhouse gases. That has been happening but its the other gases that cause localised pollution issues. It's not just one problem happening. Climate change plus other pollutants such as particulates, NOx, SOx, etc. Switching to n diesel to cut carbon emissions led to increased pollution in cities from increased diesel. Of course the switch to diesel was also partly a pritectionist policy to protect European motor industry from Japanese motor industry.

Of course you would probably know this better than me.

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al_yrpal
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby al_yrpal » 17 Apr 2019, 10:23pm

Extracted from our MPs monthly newsletter...

"Our wind farms generated more electricity than coal plants on more than 75% of days in 2017 and solar also outperformed coal more than half the time. Overall, renewables provided more power than coal plants on 315 days in 2017. Wind beat coal on 263 days, and solar outperformed the fossil fuel on 180 days. Overall, renewables now generate over 31% of our electricity.

The UK has also cut emissions by more than 40% while growing the economy by more than two thirds, the best performance on a per person basis than any other G7 nation. We are firmly on track to meet the 2050 target to reduce emissions of all greenhouse gases by 80 per cent and underpins the remarkable investment that the UK has seen in its low carbon economy since 2010. Greenhouse gas emissions have fallen by 23% since 2010.

But, there is only so far we can go by getting our own emissions down. It is developing countries' action that makes the real difference, but it is these countries that cannot afford to invest. I was delighted that the agreement reached in Paris included $100 billion of support for poorer nations to mitigate, and adapt to, the impact of climate change."

UK fusion research is taking place at Culham in the constituency

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. What do you do to make a difference?

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mjr
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby mjr » 17 Apr 2019, 10:25pm

irc wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
Vorpal wrote:.......In the UK, the US, and many other countries, it is not so much who has the strongest case, but who has the most money.

That may be why some folks see the need for rebellion. Voting has already failed them.

And that is the truth of it in a nutshell!


So can't convince the public by strength of argument so toys out the pram and block roads, trains etc. Not likely to help their case.

If they are happy to get locked up I think the police should lock up as many as required to clear the roads.
Want to protest? Go to a park or have a planned march.

As for their demand for Citizens Assemblies. We already have them. They are called parliaments
If their policies are popular enough they can get elected.

I won't hold my breath.

Have some forgotten that only a minority of the UK Parliament is elected and the life appointee majority includes some rich and notorious climate change deniers?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

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bovlomov
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby bovlomov » 17 Apr 2019, 10:48pm

Democracy doesn't close down between elections. If it did, we could all go to sleep and let the MPs and Peers get on with it.

But the lobbying never stops. Legislators are bribed, cajoled, flattered and threatened. MPs' offices receive donations. Directorships are dangled. Government patronage extends to scores of MPs, who in return for salaries are expected to support policies.

Google don't shut up between elections. Nor do oil companies. Or Rupert Murdoch. Why is it only street protesters who are expected to shut up and be happy with the result of the previous election? Is it only the self-serving who are allowed to throw their toys out of the pram between elections?

irc
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby irc » 17 Apr 2019, 11:24pm

I see one of the protesters suggested air travel only in emergencies as one of the ways to get to zero carbon. While having an Instagram showing him in exotic locations The usual do as I say not as I do.


https://order-order.com/people/robin-boardman-pattison/

Vorpal
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby Vorpal » 17 Apr 2019, 11:36pm

One of the protestors might have gone to some exotic locations, so that invalidates the entire protest?
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby Tangled Metal » 17 Apr 2019, 11:49pm

mjr wrote:Have some forgotten that only a minority of the UK Parliament is elected and the life appointee majority includes some rich and notorious climate change deniers?

Actually the Lords is a revising house but the house of commons can force legislation through. If anyone in the Lords is a climate change denier there's a mechanism to get around them if they really are an issue for any legislation going through the system.

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mjr
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby mjr » 17 Apr 2019, 11:52pm

Tangled Metal wrote:
mjr wrote:Have some forgotten that only a minority of the UK Parliament is elected and the life appointee majority includes some rich and notorious climate change deniers?

Actually the Lords is a revising house but the house of commons can force legislation through. If anyone in the Lords is a climate change denier there's a mechanism to get around them if they really are an issue for any legislation going through the system.

Actually the Lords can and does still initiate legislation and the mechanism to get around them is very very very rarely used. I had this discussion at length in the Brexit thread. Please let's not repeat it.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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bovlomov
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby bovlomov » 17 Apr 2019, 11:55pm

Vorpal wrote:One of the protestors might have gone to some exotic locations, so that invalidates the entire protest?

If he hadn't been on a foreign holiday, he'd be accused of virtue signalling. That's the grubby and bitter world of Guido Fawkes.

True - some student protesters are naive. Others seem shallow. Some are likely to end up as the very sort of hacks who are criticising them today. These aren't bombshells. We know!

Now look at what the protest is about.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby Tangled Metal » 18 Apr 2019, 12:00am

I seem to recall that the possibly former head of greenpeace used to fly around to any and all events related to what they're about. His airmiles each year could get a family flight across the planet I reckon.

I once read about a climate campaigner not related to that organisation ask why he couldn't use video conferencing more.

However such matters doesn't invalidate the issues being raised but they do seem to go some way to highlight that hypocrisy is everywhere. Like the poster on here who said someone they knew took their kid to one of those school kid protests by suv.

Of course the odd few show hypocrisy but I bet there's others who practise good habits environmentally. Root out hypocrisy and help them see their errors but don't let it stop the message being heard.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby Tangled Metal » 18 Apr 2019, 12:04am

mjr wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:
mjr wrote:Have some forgotten that only a minority of the UK Parliament is elected and the life appointee majority includes some rich and notorious climate change deniers?

Actually the Lords is a revising house but the house of commons can force legislation through. If anyone in the Lords is a climate change denier there's a mechanism to get around them if they really are an issue for any legislation going through the system.

Actually the Lords can and does still initiate legislation and the mechanism to get around them is very very very rarely used. I had this discussion at length in the Brexit thread. Please let's not repeat it.

Of course but it seemed to me that your post was implying that a few climate change deniers in the house of Lords could derail government legislation on climate change completely stopping it. If legislation is so important it would become one of the rare cases of this mechanism being used. Don't you think climate change could be that important?

Oldjohnw
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby Oldjohnw » 18 Apr 2019, 12:20am

Vorpal wrote:One of the protestors might have gone to some exotic locations, so that invalidates the entire protest?


There is therefore no such thing as climate change or global warming or endangered species or crop failure. End of argument!
John

Cycling and recycling

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Cunobelin
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby Cunobelin » 18 Apr 2019, 6:08am

I am finding the posters incredibly funny....

A large majority seem to be campaigning for compulsory destruction of the Ecosystem by making it law

Image

Then the campaigning against an unfortunate concrete company....

Image

NOt a single poster or slogan at the Shell incident spelt Ecocide properly

reohn2
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby reohn2 » 18 Apr 2019, 9:03am

Tangled Metal wrote:
reohn2 wrote:

How is it that almost all UK major cities and a big chunk of towns are presently breaking pollution levels set by our own government?

Simply put its different kinds of pollutants. International action on climate change centred around cutting greenhouse gases. That has been happening but its the other gases that cause localised pollution issues. It's not just one problem happening. Climate change plus other pollutants such as particulates, NOx, SOx, etc. Switching to n diesel to cut carbon emissions led to increased pollution in cities from increased diesel. Of course the switch to diesel was also partly a pritectionist policy to protect European motor industry from Japanese motor industry.

Of course you would probably know this better than me.

I wouldn't say better than but I am aware that there's more to the problem than just pollution in UK cities.
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kwackers
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Postby kwackers » 18 Apr 2019, 9:05am

irc wrote:I see one of the protesters suggested air travel only in emergencies as one of the ways to get to zero carbon. While having an Instagram showing him in exotic locations The usual do as I say not as I do.


https://order-order.com/people/robin-boardman-pattison/

Yep: If you can't kill the message kill the messenger.