End of Pensioner "Perks"

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mercalia
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End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby mercalia » 25 Apr 2019, 7:45am

https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/ ... ays-report

No more free bus passes or £200 winter fuel allowance or triple lock on state pension

seems lke the madness that has affected the Commons has now found its way to the old foogeys in the lords?

by all means, means teste some, but a triple lock on the basic state pension of £8000+ pa is hardly generous? that cant be means tested and to end that would affect those only living on the state pension?

if they want to tinker around with something suggest ending the £12bn given away to other countries enshrined in law ( under Labour?) or reform the tax laws so that Amazon and co pay more? or cream off top exec pay who are paid obscene amounts.

francovendee
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Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby francovendee » 25 Apr 2019, 8:01am

It's always been said it's cheaper not to means test benefits such as winter fuel allowances. I have a lot of sympathy for someone in poor circumstances who see the very wealthy getting handouts they don't need. I'd means test all benefits even if the net result would be more costly. It would give a sense of fairness.

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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 25 Apr 2019, 8:07am

I love the Lord's claim that "on average" pensioners are better off than those who are working. I wonder where they got their numbers from? Lord Winston, perhaps? :lol:
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Ben@Forest
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Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby Ben@Forest » 25 Apr 2019, 8:31am

Lance Dopestrong wrote:I love the Lord's claim that "on average" pensioners are better off than those who are working.


It is true when housing costs are taken into account. A large percentage of pensioners own their house outright. Younger people don't and, as we know, the much younger can't even get get to buy a house.

A few years ago a report found that in the UK the luckiest people in terms of what the state gave out, affordable housing prices, increases in standards of living, free tertiary education etc were those who were born between 1938 and 1948. And the further you get away from those dates in either direction the less lucky you are or were.

Oldjohnw
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Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby Oldjohnw » 25 Apr 2019, 8:37am

Ben@Forest wrote:
Lance Dopestrong wrote:I love the Lord's claim that "on average" pensioners are better off than those who are working.


It is true when housing costs are taken into account. A large percentage of pensioners own their house outright. Younger people don't and, as we know, the much younger can't even get get to buy a house.

A few years ago a report found that in the UK the luckiest people in terms of what the state gave out, affordable housing prices, increases in standards of living, free tertiary education etc were those who were born between 1938 and 1948. And the further you get away from those dates in either direction the less lucky you are or were.


The baby boomers, of which I am one, had the best of all worlds. Free university, modest house purchase costs, final salary pensions, jobs for life. In the 1950s and 1960s you could go from school straight into a job even without qualifications. Obviously, not everyone, but most. We didn't go abroad every few weeks or eat out several times a week and we repaired our clothes.
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mercalia
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Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby mercalia » 25 Apr 2019, 8:49am

is the bus pass worth a great deal any way unless you live in London?

kwackers
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Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby kwackers » 25 Apr 2019, 8:54am

mercalia wrote:is the bus pass worth a great deal any way unless you live in London?

The bus pass is the one perk which I think should be sacrosanct.

Taking it away means more older drivers for a start and adds in the cost of owning a car. And for a lot of pensioners - a group who even when they have money scrimp as though they haven't could leave them housebound.

I actually think free (or very cheap) travel around the whole of the UK should be available in retirement.
As long as it's off peak then all its really doing is making use of empty seats.

When they're handing out bus and rail contracts they should make it a condition of those. The real cost is minimal, the service providers could easily absorb it.

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Mick F
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Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby Mick F » 25 Apr 2019, 9:03am

Oldjohnw wrote: ......modest house purchase costs .......
I take a little issue with this. I've mentioned it a few times on here.

Yes, the outright costs of houses were lower than today, but we paid extortionate interest rates for the mortgage.
You knocked two naughts off the mortgage, and that's what you paid per month.

Last mortgage we had, was for £30,000 and we paid £300 per month for it. I was earning circa £25,000pa gross back then and it was a struggle to afford it.

What's the average mortgage these days? £250,000 perhaps? Could be more of course, but lets stay with it for now.
For £250,000 mortgage, you would have had to have paid £2,500 per month! :shock:

Yes, the deposit required is difficult, but the repayments are easy.
Mick F. Cornwall

mercalia
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Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby mercalia » 25 Apr 2019, 9:05am

kwackers wrote:
mercalia wrote:is the bus pass worth a great deal any way unless you live in London?

The bus pass is the one perk which I think should be sacrosanct.

Taking it away means more older drivers for a start and adds in the cost of owning a car. And for a lot of pensioners - a group who even when they have money scrimp as though they haven't could leave them housebound.

I actually think free (or very cheap) travel around the whole of the UK should be available in retirement.
As long as it's off peak then all its really doing is making use of empty seats.

When they're handing out bus and rail contracts they should make it a condition of those. The real cost is minimal, the service providers could easily absorb it.


there is also another wrinkle that in London come 2021 I think the ULEZ will extend to any where in the North and South Circulars, so to get around in you car you will need a recent model that meets exhaust emmissions. New cars aint cheap. I wont be suprised if this policy is extended to most major cities as times go by?

Ben@Forest
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Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby Ben@Forest » 25 Apr 2019, 9:12am

Mick F wrote:Yes, the outright costs of houses were lower than today, but we paid extortionate interest rates for the mortgage.
You knocked two naughts off the mortgage, and that's what you paid per month.

Last mortgage we had, was for £30,000 and we paid £300 per month for it. I was earning circa £25,000pa gross back then and it was a struggle to afford it.

What's the average mortgage these days? £250,000 perhaps? Could be more of course, but lets stay with it for now.
For £250,000 mortgage, you would have had to have paid £2,500 per month! :shock:

Yes, the deposit required is difficult, but the repayments are easy.


Your anecdote isn't really worth much Mick. You have just said you earned 25k and had a 30k mortgage. Nowadays someone still earning 25k will have a 160k mortgage. So the repayments aren't easier.

mercalia
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Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby mercalia » 25 Apr 2019, 9:13am

what surprised me is that they want to tamper with the triple lock. Thats one benefit that cant be means tested its all or nothing. How many pensioners have to get by on the basic or New State pention that is hardly generous?

"For reasons of fairness and because many pensioner households across the UK have become better off on average than many working-age families, it called on ministers to curb several benefits targeted at older Britons.

so their thinking is make the pensioners as poor as many working-age families? hmm which clever plum-in-mouth aristo thought that one up?
Last edited by mercalia on 25 Apr 2019, 9:18am, edited 1 time in total.

Psamathe
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Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby Psamathe » 25 Apr 2019, 9:17am

Mick F wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote: ......modest house purchase costs .......
I take a little issue with this. I've mentioned it a few times on here.

Yes, the outright costs of houses were lower than today, but we paid extortionate interest rates for the mortgage.
......

I agree. These days there is very selective analysis of only certain aspects to "I'm worse off than you".

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Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby Tangled Metal » 25 Apr 2019, 9:18am

Oldjohnw wrote:
Ben@Forest wrote:
Lance Dopestrong wrote:I love the Lord's claim that "on average" pensioners are better off than those who are working.


It is true when housing costs are taken into account. A large percentage of pensioners own their house outright. Younger people don't and, as we know, the much younger can't even get get to buy a house.

A few years ago a report found that in the UK the luckiest people in terms of what the state gave out, affordable housing prices, increases in standards of living, free tertiary education etc were those who were born between 1938 and 1948. And the further you get away from those dates in either direction the less lucky you are or were.


The baby boomers, of which I am one, had the best of all worlds. Free university, modest house purchase costs, final salary pensions, jobs for life. In the 1950s and 1960s you could go from school straight into a job even without qualifications. Obviously, not everyone, but most. We didn't go abroad every few weeks or eat out several times a week and we repaired our clothes.

That reminds me, I need to repair a pair of jeans. I can't waste money by not doing it but it's still a pain. My parents (baby boomers born in the sweetspot up to 1948) have told me to just throw the jeans out in the past. Benefits of their generation perhaps but I only throw them out when the repair becomes more sewing thread and I'm repairing on the repairs.

Just pointing out that make do and mend isn't the preserve of the older generations. There's plenty from all generations doing it but we just don't mention it because it's normality for us nothing special.

Sorry to pick on one thing. It's just that any generational discussion such as this always come up with the same old arguments and comments. Making do and mending is one of those.

Can I just say one thing, there is always a way to stop these inter-generational conflicts. Remove the inequalities that make these age related benefits needed. Ensure all pensioners can live without winter fuel allowance, can afford to get around without bus passes and remove the tv/radio licence. As for triple lock, make the minimum wage triple locked too? Doubt the last one is economically possible.

I guess I'm basically saying level the wealth gap between everyone irresistible age or which generational grouping they belong to. I bet you Lefties wouldn't expect this tory voter to say such things, but I'm slightly communistic at heart it's only realism that makes me a tory.

Seriously though, where does reducing such debates to generational conflict and defence get us?

Psamathe
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Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby Psamathe » 25 Apr 2019, 9:20am

Lance Dopestrong wrote:I love the Lord's claim that "on average" pensioners are better off than those who are working. I wonder where they got their numbers from? Lord Winston, perhaps? :lol:

I agree. The main point of state safety nets and assistance is to help those worse-off. Maybe somebody should point out to them that virtually 50% of pensioners are (probably) below their "average".

Ian

kwackers
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Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby kwackers » 25 Apr 2019, 9:24am

Mick F wrote:Last mortgage we had, was for £30,000 and we paid £300 per month for it. I was earning circa £25,000pa gross back then and it was a struggle to afford it.

My first (in '86) was for £25,000 and I think I was earning £10k.
IIRC my take home was around £600 a month and by the time the basics had been taken out I had around £50 left.

I reckon you had it easy Mick. ;)