End of Pensioner "Perks"

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kwackers
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Location: Warrington

Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby kwackers » 25 Apr 2019, 11:52am

Tangled Metal wrote:Bus pass was introduced in 2008. If you started work expecting that retirement benefit you're a long way off retirement. Your other elements seem fair though.

There must have been something that predated it then "old enough to get their bus pass" is something I heard as a kid.
Perhaps it was regional or simply called something else?

pete75
Posts: 12289
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby pete75 » 25 Apr 2019, 11:53am

al_yrpal wrote:Agreed, Maggie didnt help by trying to turn council tennants into Tories by practically giving them property. But... 1997? That rings a bell? Wonder what her Labour successors did to correct the situation? Start a war perhaps? :lol:

Al


Hmmm actually it was the US that started the war in Iraq. Many conveniently forget that and say it was all Labour's fault. In the same way you forget the banking crisis started in the USA and instead say it was all Labour's fault. You also forget that your "side" strongly approved the decision to go to war with only two voting against it with 17 abstentions. In contrast 84 Labour MPs voted against the war and 69 abstained. Looking at the overall voting figures there was far more opposition to the war on the Labour benches than on the other side of the house.

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bigjim
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Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby bigjim » 25 Apr 2019, 12:02pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
Ben@Forest wrote:
Lance Dopestrong wrote:I love the Lord's claim that "on average" pensioners are better off than those who are working.


It is true when housing costs are taken into account. A large percentage of pensioners own their house outright. Younger people don't and, as we know, the much younger can't even get get to buy a house.

A few years ago a report found that in the UK the luckiest people in terms of what the state gave out, affordable housing prices, increases in standards of living, free tertiary education etc were those who were born between 1938 and 1948. And the further you get away from those dates in either direction the less lucky you are or were.


The baby boomers, of which I am one, had the best of all worlds. Free university, modest house purchase costs, final salary pensions, jobs for life. In the 1950s and 1960s you could go from school straight into a job even without qualifications. Obviously, not everyone, but most. We didn't go abroad every few weeks or eat out several times a week and we repaired our clothes.

I know very few people who had Final Salary pensions. It was usually civil servants and white collar workers who benefited from this as far as I'm aware. My state pension is about £140 a week. Which includes top ups. The majority of youngsters didn't have the benefit of Uni education either. there were far fewer places and more serious degrees. I couldn't afford Uni. I'd have loved to have gone, but I was factory fodder. I scraped together a deposit for my first house and struggled with repayments having to do two jobs. I was also not earning enough to service the mortgage on paper, but got around that to obtain the mortgage.
Nothing left to prove.

pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby pwa » 25 Apr 2019, 12:04pm

kwackers wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Bus pass was introduced in 2008. If you started work expecting that retirement benefit you're a long way off retirement. Your other elements seem fair though.

There must have been something that predated it then "old enough to get their bus pass" is something I heard as a kid.
Perhaps it was regional or simply called something else?

Yes I'm sure OAPs were getting either reduced rate or free bus travel prior to that date. Ironic that it looks like it will be phased out just before I would have become eligible.

Oldjohnw
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Location: Northumberland

Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby Oldjohnw » 25 Apr 2019, 12:10pm

bigjim wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:
Ben@Forest wrote:
It is true when housing costs are taken into account. A large percentage of pensioners own their house outright. Younger people don't and, as we know, the much younger can't even get get to buy a house.

A few years ago a report found that in the UK the luckiest people in terms of what the state gave out, affordable housing prices, increases in standards of living, free tertiary education etc were those who were born between 1938 and 1948. And the further you get away from those dates in either direction the less lucky you are or were.


The baby boomers, of which I am one, had the best of all worlds. Free university, modest house purchase costs, final salary pensions, jobs for life. In the 1950s and 1960s you could go from school straight into a job even without qualifications. Obviously, not everyone, but most. We didn't go abroad every few weeks or eat out several times a week and we repaired our clothes.

I know very few people who had Final Salary pensions. It was usually civil servants and white collar workers who benefited from this as far as I'm aware. My state pension is about £140 a week. Which includes top ups. The majority of youngsters didn't have the benefit of Uni education either. there were far fewer places and more serious degrees. I couldn't afford Uni. I'd have loved to have gone, but I was factory fodder. I scraped together a deposit for my first house and struggled with repayments having to do two jobs. I was also not earning enough to service the mortgage on paper, but got around that to obtain the mortgage.



I didn't say "all". But it is a simple fact: uni education was free, there are now huge fees; final salaries were available, now they are hardly ever, not even joining civil servants.
John

Cycling and recycling

mercalia
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Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby mercalia » 25 Apr 2019, 12:15pm

one thing to do is stop paying those oaps in the house of frauds their £300 odd a day attendance allowance £300 A DAY I ASK YOU WHAT DO THEY SPEND IT ON? - 2 days and thats what real oaps get per month from the state pension? how many days does a typical aristo get per month?

reohn2
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Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby reohn2 » 25 Apr 2019, 12:24pm

kwackers wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Bus pass was introduced in 2008. If you started work expecting that retirement benefit you're a long way off retirement. Your other elements seem fair though.

There must have been something that predated it then "old enough to get their bus pass" is something I heard as a kid.
Perhaps it was regional or simply called something else?

My Mam had a bus pass and she died in 2003
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby pete75 » 25 Apr 2019, 12:50pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
bigjim wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:
The baby boomers, of which I am one, had the best of all worlds. Free university, modest house purchase costs, final salary pensions, jobs for life. In the 1950s and 1960s you could go from school straight into a job even without qualifications. Obviously, not everyone, but most. We didn't go abroad every few weeks or eat out several times a week and we repaired our clothes.

I know very few people who had Final Salary pensions. It was usually civil servants and white collar workers who benefited from this as far as I'm aware. My state pension is about £140 a week. Which includes top ups. The majority of youngsters didn't have the benefit of Uni education either. there were far fewer places and more serious degrees. I couldn't afford Uni. I'd have loved to have gone, but I was factory fodder. I scraped together a deposit for my first house and struggled with repayments having to do two jobs. I was also not earning enough to service the mortgage on paper, but got around that to obtain the mortgage.



I didn't say "all". But it is a simple fact: uni education was free, there are now huge fees; final salaries were available, now they are hardly ever, not even joining civil servants.


5% went to university. Grants were means tested on parents income. The courses weren't free - all universities had course fees. Where do you think they got their income from?

Back then there were many more people in manual jobs and few of them got any sort of pension.

New entrants to the Civil Service have got a career average scheme based on how much they earn over their entire career. This means better pensions for people who stay on a similar salary throughout their career and lower pensions for those who rise high through the ranks. In many ways it's a fairer pension than final salary. In my job the pension changed from final salary to career average 4 years before I left. Obviously the final salary pension years remained. The new scheme meant a better pension for me as the accrual rate changed from 1/60th to 1/49th of salary.

roubaixtuesday
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Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby roubaixtuesday » 25 Apr 2019, 12:58pm

The reality is that people are now living much longer in retirement, which means that many current pensioners have benefits which are far in excess of what current young workers can expect at a similar age and contributions history.

The scandal of working age benefit cuts resulting in millions of food bank visits each year whilst pensioner benefits are triple locked is a great exemplar.

This is both a wider societal issue as the poor are hit hardest by austerity *and* a generational issue.

pete75
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Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby pete75 » 25 Apr 2019, 1:01pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:The reality is that people are now living much longer in retirement, which means that many current pensioners have benefits which are far in excess of what current young workers can expect at a similar age and contributions history.

The scandal of working age benefit cuts resulting in millions of food bank visits each year whilst pensioner benefits are triple locked is a great exemplar.

This is both a wider societal issue as the poor are hit hardest by austerity *and* a generational issue.


Oldies vote. The poor don't.

francovendee
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Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby francovendee » 25 Apr 2019, 1:07pm

pete75 wrote:
francovendee wrote:It's always been said it's cheaper not to means test benefits such as winter fuel allowances. I have a lot of sympathy for someone in poor circumstances who see the very wealthy getting handouts they don't need. I'd means test all benefits even if the net result would be more costly. It would give a sense of fairness.


Increase costs the overall costs of the benefits system in order to take benefits away from some people. What a ridiculous concept. I've always though the phrase "politics of envy" is stupid but in this case it seems most appropriate.

I see it not as the politics of envy but of fairness and need.

pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby pete75 » 25 Apr 2019, 1:12pm

francovendee wrote:
pete75 wrote:
francovendee wrote:It's always been said it's cheaper not to means test benefits such as winter fuel allowances. I have a lot of sympathy for someone in poor circumstances who see the very wealthy getting handouts they don't need. I'd means test all benefits even if the net result would be more costly. It would give a sense of fairness.


Increase costs the overall costs of the benefits system in order to take benefits away from some people. What a ridiculous concept. I've always though the phrase "politics of envy" is stupid but in this case it seems most appropriate.

I see it not as the politics of envy but of fairness and need.


Increasing benefits for the worse off meets a test of need. Spending more, as you propose, merely to take benefits away from people you think shouldn't have them is the "politics of envy".

francovendee
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Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby francovendee » 25 Apr 2019, 1:15pm

pete75 wrote:
francovendee wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Increase costs the overall costs of the benefits system in order to take benefits away from some people. What a ridiculous concept. I've always though the phrase "politics of envy" is stupid but in this case it seems most appropriate.

I see it not as the politics of envy but of fairness and need.


Increasing benefits for the worse off meets a test of need. Spending more, as you propose, merely to take benefits away from people you think shouldn't have them is the "politics of envy".

You think people who don't need the benefits should have them anyway, regardless of wealth?

pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby pete75 » 25 Apr 2019, 1:28pm

francovendee wrote:
pete75 wrote:
francovendee wrote:I see it not as the politics of envy but of fairness and need.


Increasing benefits for the worse off meets a test of need. Spending more, as you propose, merely to take benefits away from people you think shouldn't have them is the "politics of envy".

You think people who don't need the benefits should have them anyway, regardless of wealth?


Where the test for receiving a particular benefit is age then all of an age to meet that test should receive it. Where the test to receive a benefit is based on income then all who meet that test should receive it.

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al_yrpal
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Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Postby al_yrpal » 25 Apr 2019, 1:43pm

reohn2 wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:Agreed, Maggie didnt help by trying to turn council tennants into Tories by practically giving them property. But... 1997? That rings a bell? Wonder what her Labour successors did to correct the situation? Start a war perhaps? :lol:

Al

Whilst I agree with you,it was New labour ie; Tories in red ties,not Labour,and the UK electorate fell for it hook line and sinker.
That's why we're where we are today,the belief in growth year on year and pie in the economics.
The people who voted for it and those who couldn't be bothered to vote at all are to blame.
As a result we now have a bunch of millionaire public school educated idiots running the country,with just over half the population at last count in 2016 believing it's all the fault of the EU
It isn't.
What caused it was greed in the form of unbridled capitalism and buying votes!


Oh, so Noolabour were really Tories??? :lol: Then why is it you look down the list of Blairs babes and Labours male MPs do you see so many names that are the same names as today? Bush and Blair declared war on the Muslim world and we are still reaping the dreadful consequences right now.
Personally I judge folk by what they do and say and not on where they went to school.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. What do you do to make a difference?