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Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Posted: 25 Apr 2019, 1:47pm
by Ben@Forest
Oldjohnw wrote:I bought my first house in 1971 for £3,500. I was earning £1,000pa. In my town today average house price is 10x average salary.


I know a former lecturer who bought his first house in the early 1970s on his NERC (Natural Environment Research Council) grant for his PhD.

Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Posted: 25 Apr 2019, 1:48pm
by Tangled Metal
kwackers wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Bus pass was introduced in 2008. If you started work expecting that retirement benefit you're a long way off retirement. Your other elements seem fair though.

There must have been something that predated it then "old enough to get their bus pass" is something I heard as a kid.
Perhaps it was regional or simply called something else?

I believe some local schemes allowed for reductions in the same way as rail cards. Not really the same as post-2008 bus passes. I could be wrong there since it was also something I recall from the 70s / 80s but I was only born early 70s. I do recall kids having cards and adults. Possibly unemployed and pensioners.

If you started work in 2008 at 18 years AFAIK you'll only retire something like 2057 or 2060. Assuming they n don't change this retirement age again.

Incidentally I heard when retirement age for men got set it was on the basis that average life expectancy would give you very little time in retirement and you're probably going to be crocked in those years from hard work. Right now you can retire at 65/67 and have many, many years of fit and active life ahead of you. Perhaps the system is to increase retirement age according to life expectancy. Adjustments for familial medical history, occupational factors, etc.

Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Posted: 25 Apr 2019, 1:57pm
by reohn2
al_yrpal wrote:
Oh, so Noolabour were really Tories??? :lol:Then why is it you look down the list of Blairs babes and Labours male MPs do you see so many names that are the same names as today?

You're the first to complain that Labour is a full of 'Trots' so which is it?
I think you'll find that the 'Blairs babes' are at odds with the current leadership because they're still 'Blairs babes'.
And yes New Labour are definitely part of the problem the Uk is where it is today.
You'll be telling me next that the 'sub optimal' Mother Thersa May is the asnswer to all ours prayers
Bush and Blair declared war on the Muslim world and we are still reaping the dreadful consequences right now

I totally agree,Bush declared war Blair fell in line by telling him he'd follow him on whatever he decided,proving he was a US lap dog :?
I think Pete75 covered the differences in the H of C at that time.
Personally I judge folk by what they do and say and not on where they went to school.

Al

I generally do myself,but the political elite,and more so in the Tory party,has more than it's fair share of loonie public school creeps who simply don't know how the other half live,which is the problem.
YVMV mine won't until proven otherwise

Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Posted: 25 Apr 2019, 2:18pm
by al_yrpal
Theres one or twoTrots in Labours leadership which is worrying but the main phalanx are hords of recent joiners lurking in the shadows, pulling the strings. The next election is when they will have to reveal themselves to put their candidates in place displacing the many decent long serving Labour MPs.
Any party seeking to cancel pensioners benefits is signing its own death warrant. :wink:

Al

Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Posted: 25 Apr 2019, 2:29pm
by Oldjohnw
pete75 wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:
bigjim wrote:I know very few people who had Final Salary pensions. It was usually civil servants and white collar workers who benefited from this as far as I'm aware. My state pension is about £140 a week. Which includes top ups. The majority of youngsters didn't have the benefit of Uni education either. there were far fewer places and more serious degrees. I couldn't afford Uni. I'd have loved to have gone, but I was factory fodder. I scraped together a deposit for my first house and struggled with repayments having to do two jobs. I was also not earning enough to service the mortgage on paper, but got around that to obtain the mortgage.



I didn't say "all". But it is a simple fact: uni education was free, there are now huge fees; final salaries were available, now they are hardly ever, not even joining civil servants.


5% went to university. Grants were means tested on parents income. The courses weren't free - all universities had course fees. Where do you think they got their income from?

Back then there were many more people in manual jobs and few of them got any sort of pension.

New entrants to the Civil Service have got a career average scheme based on how much they earn over their entire career. This means better pensions for people who stay on a similar salary throughout their career and lower pensions for those who rise high through the ranks. In many ways it's a fairer pension than final salary. In my job the pension changed from final salary to career average 4 years before I left. Obviously the final salary pension years remained. The new scheme meant a better pension for me as the accrual rate changed from 1/60th to 1/49th of salary.


Courses were not free but there was no cost to the student. My wife had money left over when she was at Oxford in the mid 70s. Now there are young people with £40k of debt. I share your experience of pensions but new entrants get nothing like the deal I had. It wasn't even contributory in my early years in the Civil Service.

Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Posted: 25 Apr 2019, 2:31pm
by kwackers
Tangled Metal wrote:Incidentally I heard when retirement age for men got set it was on the basis that average life expectancy would give you very little time in retirement and you're probably going to be crocked in those years from hard work. Right now you can retire at 65/67 and have many, many years of fit and active life ahead of you. Perhaps the system is to increase retirement age according to life expectancy. Adjustments for familial medical history, occupational factors, etc.

Why not?

If you save for your retirement then as well as the taxes you paid on those savings you indirectly need to hand over more based on the "benefits" you'd be no longer entitled to.

So if that's ok then why not do the same for health?
Those who looked after themselves, exercised and ate sensibly potentially saving the NHS no small amount of cash can be "taxed" on their extended life expectancy.

If you're going to work people until they're incapable of working then why not simply dispose of them when they're done? It's not like they'll have the money or health to spend a few years before they snuff it actually enjoying themselves...

Perhaps the reality is that by the time they retire most will be living off the proceeds of automation.
I wonder how many real jobs there'll be by 2060.

Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Posted: 25 Apr 2019, 4:06pm
by Mick F
pete75 wrote:5% went to university. Grants were means tested on parents income. The courses weren't free - all universities had course fees. Where do you think they got their income from?
Our elder daughter went to uni in the 1990s but by then she was married and independent from us. She still had to fill in a form with our income but it was pointless as we didn't support her and hadn't done for a few years, so it was dismissed.

She funded herself via grants. BA, and then later an MA.
She teaches English at a senior school now, and looking for a headship at another senior school. Hope she gets it, coz she's brilliant.

Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Posted: 25 Apr 2019, 4:26pm
by NUKe
My view we should make public transport virtually free for everyone, regardless of age maybe a very minimal payment if anyone remembers the Sheffield bus system, before privatisation, it was an ideal model, Buses would then become more widely used, Buses could be electric charging at the bus stops using induction charging, congestion would be decreased, towns and cities would be revitalised and the environment would benefit. You could then build less roads.

Winter fuel payments, the housing stock should be upgraded to the point it’s not necessary for the payment. The poor are particularly vulnerable. Yong or old are susceptible to high fuel bills in substandard houses, not to mention the effect of bad housing stock on the environment.

Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Posted: 25 Apr 2019, 4:35pm
by Ben@Forest
It is notable that on this thread a considerable number of people who pontificate about the lives of others on other threads see their own approaches or lifestyles as 'right' here (honourable exceptions for oldjohnw and slowster).

Fact is the baby boomers (who are disproportionately represented in the Tea Shop) have had increasingly good lives - and their children or grandchildren won't. You can kick against it but it's the truth.

Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Posted: 25 Apr 2019, 4:40pm
by reohn2
al_yrpal wrote:Theres one or twoTrots in Labours leadership which is worrying but the main phalanx are hords of recent joiners lurking in the shadows, pulling the strings. The next election is when they will have to reveal themselves to put their candidates in place displacing the many decent long serving Labour MPs.
Any party seeking to cancel pensioners benefits is signing its own death warrant. :wink:

Al

Well at least we agree on one thing :)

Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Posted: 25 Apr 2019, 4:48pm
by reohn2
Ben@Forest wrote:......Fact is the baby boomers (who are disproportionately represented in the Tea Shop) have had increasingly good lives - and their children or grandchildren won't. You can kick against it but it's the truth.

I totally agree but you can't blame those baby boomers for looking after themselves.They aren't the problem,the problem IMO is the mismanagement of the country since 1979 which successive governments have driven taxes down and property prices up.

Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Posted: 25 Apr 2019, 5:03pm
by Tangled Metal
Wasn't another problem the way the north Sea oil revenues were used instead being put into a sovereign fund like Norway did? Basically a symptom of the way all governments have looked only to the short-term and their own legacy / survival at the top than national interests.

Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Posted: 25 Apr 2019, 5:08pm
by reohn2
Tangled Metal wrote:Wasn't another problem the way the north Sea oil revenues were used instead being put into a sovereign fund like Norway did?

Instead they were used to buy votes,along with the sale of council housing stock.
Basically a symptom of the way all governments have looked only to the short-term and their own legacy / survival at the top than national interests

Exactly,and which is what's happening with the present government,political power trumps national interest everytime,it's why the Uk sorely needs PR.

PS,we're agreeing again :wink:

Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Posted: 25 Apr 2019, 5:37pm
by mercalia
reohn2 wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:Theres one or twoTrots in Labours leadership which is worrying but the main phalanx are hords of recent joiners lurking in the shadows, pulling the strings. The next election is when they will have to reveal themselves to put their candidates in place displacing the many decent long serving Labour MPs.
Any party seeking to cancel pensioners benefits is signing its own death warrant. :wink:

Al

Well at least we agree on one thing :)


Well now is the time for the tories? viz brexit

Re: End of Pensioner "Perks"

Posted: 25 Apr 2019, 5:46pm
by hondated
reohn2 wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Wasn't another problem the way the north Sea oil revenues were used instead being put into a sovereign fund like Norway did?

Instead they were used to buy votes,along with the sale of council housing stock.
Basically a symptom of the way all governments have looked only to the short-term and their own legacy / survival at the top than national interests

Exactly,and which is what's happening with the present government,political power trumps national interest everytime,it's why the Uk sorely needs PR.

PS,we're agreeing again :wink:

Not necessarily true as I was brought up on a lodge council estate and buying a house was something I never imagined doing until my wife nagged me to buy the one we lived in. I didn't agree with them being sold as I knew the money would not be used to replace them but SWMBO won and we brought it. Good move as we made a tidy profit when we sold it :lol:
But do you know what that profit we made didn't buy me a Porsche but instead 21 years later enabled us to pass it onto to our daughter and her husband for them to buy their first house.
And as for voting Tory you have got to be joking :lol: