Hi-tech voting?

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661-Pete
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Hi-tech voting?

Postby 661-Pete » 2 May 2019, 11:56am

We had our first experience of ID checks at the polling station today. Bringing polling cards (or photo ID) compulsory, someone at the polling station had a computer and read a QR code off the polling card and also off each ballot paper.

However voting was still the old-fashioned way: put a cross on a piece of paper.

Shouldn't there be a better way now? Voting by internet? Can that be made secure and hacker-proof enough? Don't suggest the American "pregnant chad" or whatever, please!

This time the polling cards came in an envelope (previously they'd been sent as postcards), and attached to an A4-sized piece of cardboard which served no useful purpose other than to waste more and more paper...

Moreover, I don't think there have been any cases of voter impersonation, locally, for many years past.

Why the rigmarole?
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: Hi-tech voting?

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 2 May 2019, 12:06pm

Why the expense of doing it any other way?
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Hi-tech voting?

Postby Tangled Metal » 2 May 2019, 12:13pm

Have you seen Lego movie?

The hero is about to be oppressed by bad cop when he says octan (evil Corp) and Mr business (president of this Lego world and if octan) does only good. He reels off a list of inane things that are good and last thing read polling machines. At which point the hero suddenly sees something is wrong.

Sorry, I've been watching it too much with my young son on practical rotation. I've been Lego brainwashed. :wink:

Seriously, why change to technology when the current system of polling seems to work and there is so much understanding of what the weaknesses are in it. What does tech really offer and what is the issues and opportunities to cheat the tech system? Where's the pregnant chads issue with it?

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Hi-tech voting?

Postby [XAP]Bob » 2 May 2019, 1:08pm

No - no - no...

A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Hi-tech voting?

Postby [XAP]Bob » 2 May 2019, 1:18pm

Moreover, I don't think there have been any cases of voter impersonation, locally, for many years past.


Or at least any *discovered* and publicised cases.

Taking the polling card as ID is fine - requiring something else is starting to discriminate against certain voters (generally those who are economically poorer)
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

merseymouth
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Re: Hi-tech voting?

Postby merseymouth » 2 May 2019, 1:24pm

HSo new isn't always best. IGICB MM

pete75
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Re: Hi-tech voting?

Postby pete75 » 2 May 2019, 1:25pm

I just walked down to our voting station without my polling card. They just asked for name and address and gave me a voting slip. No ID checks at all.

merseymouth
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Re: Hi-tech voting?

Postby merseymouth » 2 May 2019, 1:26pm

Hi, Technology has just screwed up my post! So maybe things have to be failsafe before baby & bathwater are dumped? IGICB MM

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Mick F
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Re: Hi-tech voting?

Postby Mick F » 2 May 2019, 1:36pm

No voting here.
It's not every council doing it.
Mick F. Cornwall

mercalia
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Re: Hi-tech voting?

Postby mercalia » 2 May 2019, 2:14pm

661-Pete wrote:We had our first experience of ID checks at the polling station today. Bringing polling cards (or photo ID) compulsory, someone at the polling station had a computer and read a QR code off the polling card and also off each ballot paper.

However voting was still the old-fashioned way: put a cross on a piece of paper.

Shouldn't there be a better way now? Voting by internet? Can that be made secure and hacker-proof enough? Don't suggest the American "pregnant chad" or whatever, please!

This time the polling cards came in an envelope (previously they'd been sent as postcards), and attached to an A4-sized piece of cardboard which served no useful purpose other than to waste more and more paper...

Moreover, I don't think there have been any cases of voter impersonation, locally, for many years past.

Why the rigmarole?


dont they use voting machines in the USA where they are known for insecurity? I would have thought a thumb print on the paper might be an improvement, then could easily detect fraudulent votes?

merseymouth
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Re: Hi-tech voting?

Postby merseymouth » 2 May 2019, 2:31pm

Hello again, In the US of A they have more than one single system for casting ones ballot.
One method is an electronic device that one select ones choice from the menu, a bit like the electronic menu they use at Wetherspoons.
Another system is a punch-card machine, where one sets your preferences, then when chosen the elector activates the stamping process.
Sadly that type of device gave rise to the "Hanging Chad" fiasco! Clearly the choice was evident, but the fact that the chad had not become fully detached caused some eejits to claim that they were improper votes?
One place where I really would like to see an improved voting system to be put in place is the Palace of Westminster! Put an end to seeing prat Bercow screaming "Clear The Lobby", with everyone having to wait an eternity for the dumb folk to walk through the relevant channel.
Surely they could employ one of the good things about the E.U.? It is not even a 19th Century process!
IGICB MM

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Cugel
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Re: Hi-tech voting?

Postby Cugel » 2 May 2019, 2:33pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Have you seen Lego movie?

The hero is about to be oppressed by bad cop when he says octan (evil Corp) and Mr business (president of this Lego world and if octan) does only good. He reels off a list of inane things that are good and last thing read polling machines. At which point the hero suddenly sees something is wrong.

Sorry, I've been watching it too much with my young son on practical rotation. I've been Lego brainwashed. :wink:

Seriously, why change to technology when the current system of polling seems to work and there is so much understanding of what the weaknesses are in it. What does tech really offer and what is the issues and opportunities to cheat the tech system? Where's the pregnant chads issue with it?


A perfect summation of why being conservative (with a small c, not the Party ilk) is such a sensible option. In a well-developed tradition or practice that's survived the tests of time, the glitches have often been removed and a deep understanding of the processes installed in the practitioners.

But in the mind of The Rationalist, history is bunk, anything old must be wrong and the latest fashion is always a great basis for making something anew, even if it doesn't work and causes all sorts of disastrous unintended consequences.

Cugel

Tangled Metal
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Re: Hi-tech voting?

Postby Tangled Metal » 2 May 2019, 2:35pm

mercalia wrote:I would have thought a thumb print on the paper might be an improvement, then could easily detect fraudulent votes?
And identify voters with votes which is against the principle of secret ballot. Not a good idea!

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Mick F
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Re: Hi-tech voting?

Postby Mick F » 2 May 2019, 2:40pm

Tangled Metal wrote:
mercalia wrote:I would have thought a thumb print on the paper might be an improvement, then could easily detect fraudulent votes?
And identify voters with votes which is against the principle of secret ballot. Not a good idea!
Every voting slip has your voter number on it.
Easy process to tally the number with the name and address ............. though I doubt anyone would bother.
Mick F. Cornwall

Psamathe
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Re: Hi-tech voting?

Postby Psamathe » 2 May 2019, 2:42pm

In my area the Council can't even cope with basic information provision. I could not find out from them who was actually standing in my ward(?). Not which parties or anything. And as only Labour bothered to push waste paper through my letterbox (and I'll never get that 5 mins back) I could not find out or research anything until I arrived at the Polling station.

So Hi-tech for my council ... 1st step would be learning a bit about the internet and putting up a web page saying what candidates are standing in each ward.

Interestingly I got loads of information from people standing for Parish council (but 1st time we've had to actually vote for then since I've lived here).

Ian