Wedding presents

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Mike Sales
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Re: Wedding presents

Postby Mike Sales » 23 May 2019, 8:50pm

Mick F wrote::lol: :lol:

Saving the planet eh?
Tell you what, I'll give up beer so they don't need to produce all that CO2 for me.


This provokes the question.
Is beer in which the CO2 which gives effervescence comes from the yeast, greener than beer with injected CO2?

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Mick F
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Re: Wedding presents

Postby Mick F » 23 May 2019, 8:55pm

Dunno, but when we brewed Home Brew beers and wines, we produced our own.
Therefore our home-produced CO2 was at least British, and not some of that EU rubbish! :lol:
Mick F. Cornwall

Mike Sales
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Re: Wedding presents

Postby Mike Sales » 23 May 2019, 9:33pm

Mick F wrote:Dunno, but when we brewed Home Brew beers and wines, we produced our own.
Therefore our home-produced CO2 was at least British, and not some of that EU rubbish! :lol:


I am afraid that the atmosphere does not distinguish between Brit CO2 and EU CO2. They both contribute to the disastrous build up. We need to cooperate with the EU and the rest of the world to avoid catastrophic global heating.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Wedding presents

Postby Cyril Haearn » 23 May 2019, 10:15pm

Oldjohnw wrote:To update:

My beloved niece has posted two consecutive posts on Instagram. One tells us that she is a 'vegan to save the planet'. The other infoms us that 'honeymoon in Maldives now booked'.

Be glad she is not Conquering Everest, sorry Chomolungma, that is very popular, the Grauniad reports that there is a queue in the "death zone" :?
Nice one Cyrille, nice one son..
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on 49" fixed
We love safety cameras, we love life "1330"

Tangled Metal
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Re: Wedding presents

Postby Tangled Metal » 23 May 2019, 10:44pm

A guy I used to know nearly died in the death zone first attempt but second was successful. First was caused by a sponsored climber who was paid to do a stunt on the top of continental highs after failing on everest he was coming down and incompetence led to slip and incorrect use of lines. That took his guy I knew out.

Somehow he made it out of the death zone. Nobody can help you up there so you have to sort yourself out. Credit to the guy, he had to be tough. He came back to complete it. However at what cost? Actually cheap at £26k for both trips but he didn't care what he put his wife and family through. They split up in the end. It's a selfish sport is high altitude climbing/mountaineering. Best only for single people IMHO.

Mike Sales
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Re: Wedding presents

Postby Mike Sales » 23 May 2019, 10:55pm

Tangled Metal wrote:A guy I used to know nearly died in the death zone first attempt but second was successful. First was caused by a sponsored climber who was paid to do a stunt on the top of continental highs after failing on everest he was coming down and incompetence led to slip and incorrect use of lines. That took his guy I knew out.

Somehow he made it out of the death zone. Nobody can help you up there so you have to sort yourself out. Credit to the guy, he had to be tough. He came back to complete it. However at what cost? Actually cheap at £26k for both trips but he didn't care what he put his wife and family through. They split up in the end. It's a selfish sport is high altitude climbing/mountaineering. Best only for single people IMHO.


Take a look at the pic of the huge queue. That is not high altitude mountaineering, it is tourism, extreme tourism but any self respecting climber would take a look at that and go elsewhere. Being dragged up the yak route by Sherpas is not something you do because you love climbing, it is getting a tick on a bloody bucket list.

Oldjohnw
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Re: Wedding presents

Postby Oldjohnw » 24 May 2019, 2:00am

Cyril Haearn wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:To update:

My beloved niece has posted two consecutive posts on Instagram. One tells us that she is a 'vegan to save the planet'. The other infoms us that 'honeymoon in Maldives now booked'.

Be glad she is not Conquering Everest, sorry Chomolungma, that is very popular, the Grauniad reports that there is a queue in the "death zone" :?



Yeah - another pet hate. People claiming they are doing a charity walk/cycle in some exotic location and need to raise funds, say £2000: £1500 for their holiday ie travel costs and £500 less admin costs for the charity.
John

Tangled Metal
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Re: Wedding presents

Postby Tangled Metal » 24 May 2019, 8:59am

The truth of climbing everest is that it is hard. There is no way at all that any human could drag anyone up the mountain once in the death zone. Sherpas are amazing individuals, apparently with adaptations for high altitude due to living in the region. But the death zone is exactly that, you're dying in it.

The most important fact you need to know about climbing in the death zone is you are on your own. There is nobody going to help you because that is likely to take their life.

I've known very talented climbers with decades of experience in all kinds of climbing who have been up there. That one I described dragged himself down for mile after mile before anyone tried to help. They stayed with him, including one of their group who turned back just below us summit to miss his one and only chance of reaching the top just to stay with him as he dragged his broken body down.

While still in the death zone but a long way down from the summit. A nearby marines climbing party responded. A big, strong marine tried to help him down. He'd get him up to his one good leg and take a couple of steps / hops then the marine would collapse completely shattered. It is that hard up there.

So yes it is a tourist destination. Big deal! But do not belittle those who try to do it because of that. It is still without any shadow of a doubt a very hard undertaking. IMHO it is disrespectful of all who have stood on an 8000m peak to belittle those who do it just because of tourist like queues.

One more point, people have been queuing at places on everest for decades. The hillary step for example. It's a place that funnels climbers into what would be a very easy pitch or two in the UK. Up there or is very difficult. There's been, lines put up there every year for decades, and ladders and other aids. Every year at the start of the season they're put up there. But that's the constriction, one of many that climbers queue at. Either waiting for people to go up or down before you can progress. I believe that's similar of on a smaller scale on other big mountains. I bet the big 4 alpine North faces have queues on the big name routes too.

Sorry for the long rant but it annoyed me how people can, belittle something that is a big, big, big challenge for anyone as if someone can pull them up or you can piggyback up to the summit. Ridiculous! And it annoys me, the ignorance of the idea.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Wedding presents

Postby Cyril Haearn » 24 May 2019, 9:18am

Crazy
Reading about it is exciting enough for me, I did conquer Foel Fras, 3092' once, mind :wink:
Or reading 'the big walks', typically: 'a strenuous trudge through a trackless wilderness, no alternatives or escape routes, only to be attempted by experienced walkers in good weather in midsummer'
Going to see the film 'Free Solo' again for a bit more excitement
Nice one Cyrille, nice one son..
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on 49" fixed
We love safety cameras, we love life "1330"

Mike Sales
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Re: Wedding presents

Postby Mike Sales » 24 May 2019, 9:30am

Tangled Metal wrote:Sorry for the long rant but it annoyed me how people can, belittle something that is a big, big, big challenge for anyone as if someone can pull them up or you can piggyback up to the summit. Ridiculous! And it annoys me, the ignorance of the idea.


Sure, it is a big challenge for a tourist, but high altitude mountaineering it is not.
Have a look at the climbs done in the Himalaya by mountaineers.
It is like comparing a charity bike ride with a 24 hour TT.
Riding 50 miles for a sedentary person is praiseworthy, but it is not long distance cycling.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Wedding presents

Postby Tangled Metal » 24 May 2019, 10:41am

Mike Sales wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Sorry for the long rant but it annoyed me how people can, belittle something that is a big, big, big challenge for anyone as if someone can pull them up or you can piggyback up to the summit. Ridiculous! And it annoys me, the ignorance of the idea.


Sure, it is a big challenge for a tourist, but high altitude mountaineering it is not.
Have a look at the climbs done in the Himalaya by mountaineers.
It is like comparing a charity bike ride with a 24 hour TT.
Riding 50 miles for a sedentary person is praiseworthy, but it is not long distance cycling.

That's rubbish! The guy I knew was a mountaineer and he still failed on his first attempt (admittedly not through his own fault). He did it the second attempt. It's a challenge to anyone purely because of the altitude. Your comparison is pointless because there's never been a tt or charity ride in the death zone. Comparing it like that is simply wrong.

What's you are doing is ignoring the difficulties. You simply can't compare climbing or any activity in normal oxygen levels with death zone activities. It's a real physical challenge. If it's a easily dismissed as you are doing then there would be a lot more people doing it.

First off there's your body's reaction to altitude. I know people who've attempted mint blanc. One of my friends friend caused the whole group to give up on getting to the top because even at that lower altitude he was struggling.

Then you have the death zone. Even oxygen is only delaying your death if you got stuck up there. Walking on the easy sections is slow and very much laboured. It's physically very demanding. Anyone up there will be very fit indeed. They're all still endurance athletes.

Then you have a whole set of mental issues. The determination to succeed needs to be there. But then you need to be able to concentrate when you're brain is struggling for oxygen. You're likely to be operating climbing kit when your mind is struggling to think, even to work out how to use the item. A krab is a puzzle at serious altitude.

Personally I would describe it as a kind of like a ultra marathon carried out over several days without sleep and at altitude.


Sorry but dismissing the feat because of a photograph of people waiting to get through the last difficult section before the top is wrong. BTW they've been queuing at these locations on the popular summit routes for decades. Even before the tourism machine we see these days. That was back when it was a lot more expensive and I'm certain even you'd call them proper high altitude mountaineers.

BTW the guy I knew who did it went up by a less used route. More of a challenge but he still followed the queues. He also got to the top on his own. Apparently that's common, people are doing this as a solo when they're up in the death zone. Nobody can help you.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Wedding presents

Postby Tangled Metal » 24 May 2019, 10:56am

I guess we'll never agree on this matter.

Mike Sales
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Re: Wedding presents

Postby Mike Sales » 24 May 2019, 11:04am

Tangled Metal wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Sorry for the long rant but it annoyed me how people can, belittle something that is a big, big, big challenge for anyone as if someone can pull them up or you can piggyback up to the summit. Ridiculous! And it annoys me, the ignorance of the idea.


Sure, it is a big challenge for a tourist, but high altitude mountaineering it is not.
Have a look at the climbs done in the Himalaya by mountaineers.
It is like comparing a charity bike ride with a 24 hour TT.
Riding 50 miles for a sedentary person is praiseworthy, but it is not long distance cycling.

That's rubbish! The guy I knew was a mountaineer and he still failed on his first attempt (admittedly not through his own fault). He did it the second attempt. It's a challenge to anyone purely because of the altitude. Your comparison is pointless because there's never been a tt or charity ride in the death zone. Comparing it like that is simply wrong.

What's you are doing is ignoring the difficulties. You simply can't compare climbing or any activity in normal oxygen levels with death zone activities. It's a real physical challenge. If it's a easily dismissed as you are doing then there would be a lot more people doing it.

First off there's your body's reaction to altitude. I know people who've attempted mint blanc. One of my friends friend caused the whole group to give up on getting to the top because even at that lower altitude he was struggling.

Then you have the death zone. Even oxygen is only delaying your death if you got stuck up there. Walking on the easy sections is slow and very much laboured. It's physically very demanding. Anyone up there will be very fit indeed. They're all still endurance athletes.

Then you have a whole set of mental issues. The determination to succeed needs to be there. But then you need to be able to concentrate when you're brain is struggling for oxygen. You're likely to be operating climbing kit when your mind is struggling to think, even to work out how to use the item. A krab is a puzzle at serious altitude.

Personally I would describe it as a kind of like a ultra marathon carried out over several days without sleep and at altitude.


Sorry but dismissing the feat because of a photograph of people waiting to get through the last difficult section before the top is wrong. BTW they've been queuing at these locations on the popular summit routes for decades. Even before the tourism machine we see these days. That was back when it was a lot more expensive and I'm certain even you'd call them proper high altitude mountaineers.

BTW the guy I knew who did it went up by a less used route. More of a challenge but he still followed the queues. He also got to the top on his own. Apparently that's common, people are doing this as a solo when they're up in the death zone. Nobody can help you.



Getting up Everest is not easy. I was not saying it is as easy as cycling fifty miles.
At the beginning of each climbing season the commercial expeditions get together and agree which section their Sherpas will equip with fixed ropes, and who will make the route through the icefall.
All loads are carried by Sherpas, which involves multiple ice fall transits. Tents are pitched and camps equipped with oxygen by the Sherpas, Clients are led on a short rope when the route is fully equipped. All decisions are made by others.
The joy of mountaineering is in using your own skill, judgement and experience to go safely in dangerous places.
The clients of commercial expeditions subcontract all this to others. The risk is nowhere near eliminated, but its management is in the hands of the guides.
The clients do have to do the physical work of getting their body up the hill of course, and its not easy, but this cannot be compared with real mountaineering.
Which route did your friend use? I had not heard that there are ever queues on any route but the South Col.
I know nothing of your friend's ascent, so cannot comment on it.

For an insight into sport mountaineering read Lito Tejada-Flores's essay Games Climbers Play .
[url]read:https://sespegorilla.blogspot.com/2010/11/games-climbers-play-by-lito-tejada.html[/url]
It is about how climbers keep the sport element in different fields of climbing.

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Paulatic
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Re: Wedding presents

Postby Paulatic » 24 May 2019, 2:02pm

Oldjohnw wrote:[]


Yeah - another pet hate. People claiming they are doing a charity walk/cycle in some exotic location and need to raise funds, say £2000: £1500 for their holiday ie travel costs and £500 less admin costs for the charity.


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Tangled Metal
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Re: Wedding presents

Postby Tangled Metal » 24 May 2019, 3:08pm

My school used to get visits from a schools adventure charity set up by a few people including this guy Blythe something or other who saled around the world in a bath tub or something like that. You had to raise £2000 and got the reward of trekking in one of a few adventurous locations and you did a devopmental project for the locals like build part of a school. It would count for social and exped part of DoE gold badge.

Basically you could get the holiday part for £1000 and the rest went on admin and a little to the charity. Wasn't impressed with he way the money was spent. Still a couple of rich kids went on one but their parents paid for it all possibly they earnt a tenner washing family cars but they knew they'd never get the money daddy would pay.