Facial Recognition by the Authorities

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mercalia
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Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby mercalia » 18 May 2019, 8:59pm

What do you make of this latest development?
and those who refused to cooperate where given fines :evil:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/technolog ... -cut-crime

we seem to be sleep walking into a police state?

Track you using your mobile and also your face
Last edited by mercalia on 3 Jul 2019, 9:10pm, edited 2 times in total.

Bonefishblues
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby Bonefishblues » 18 May 2019, 9:10pm

Not quite. That person was given a fixed penalty for disorderly behaviour, not for non-compliance. What were the others fined for?

mercalia
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby mercalia » 18 May 2019, 9:15pm

Bonefishblues wrote:Not quite. That person was given a fixed penalty for disorderly behaviour, not for non-compliance. What were the others fined for?


well I got the impression that non compliance was treated as disorderly behaviour when the guy objected & didnt like being touched or man handled

Bonefishblues
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby Bonefishblues » 18 May 2019, 9:54pm

mercalia wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:Not quite. That person was given a fixed penalty for disorderly behaviour, not for non-compliance. What were the others fined for?


well I got the impression that non compliance was treated as disorderly behaviour when the guy objected & didnt like being touched or man handled

If he had politely explained that he preferred not to be scanned in that way as opposed to telling the police to eff off I suspect matters might have turned out differently.

Oldjohnw
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby Oldjohnw » 18 May 2019, 9:58pm

The guy didn't do himself any favours but there is definitely something unsettling about this process.
John

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Bonefishblues
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby Bonefishblues » 18 May 2019, 10:02pm

Oldjohnw wrote:The guy didn't do himself any favours but there is definitely something unsettling about this process.

I agree, but what's to be done? The police aren't getting any more resources any time soon, and as long as my image isn't stored, then I have no worries if it helps to get the bad guys, just like anpr.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby [XAP]Bob » 19 May 2019, 7:42am

With a 98% false positive rate, and a distinct bias against ethnic minorities (becauseball current facial recognition tech currently has such a bias)...


It doesn’t help get he bad guys... and it won’t do so any time soon.
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Bonefishblues
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby Bonefishblues » 19 May 2019, 8:51am

[XAP]Bob wrote:With a 98% false positive rate, and a distinct bias against ethnic minorities (becauseball current facial recognition tech currently has such a bias)...


It doesn’t help get he bad guys... and it won’t do so any time soon.

It would be very helpful to have a source/sources for that please.

ETA
There are a plethora of articles saying how far it has come in very recent years, as an emerging technology. Here's a summary from an arm of US Govt., for instance:

https://www.fedscoop.com/facial-recogni ... udy-finds/

I read that as above, with the important caveat that there are some unreliable solutions available commercially, so buyer beware, driven by the quality of the algorithm used.

thirdcrank
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby thirdcrank » 19 May 2019, 10:24am

I see at least two separate but related issues here. One is the technical capabilities of the kit. I presume that like everything else digital, it will gradually become more reliable.

Another is the power of the police to require somebody to uncover their face. I'm by no means up-to-date with anti-terror legislation so there may be something there. Otherwise, in general and using my own words, if somebody has committed an offence, the police can require them to identify themselves and that must surely include uncovering their face. That's not the same as the police being able to require somebody to identify themselves, including uncovering their face and if they do not do so they commit an offence.

Bonefishblues
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby Bonefishblues » 19 May 2019, 10:27am

I think that the issue I saw in the clip was that there was an individual who actively prevented his face been scanned. We're then into the realms of suspicion in terms of their motives, just as if someone hides from an officer, aren't we?

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Mick F
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby Mick F » 19 May 2019, 10:42am

Sales of masks will increase.
It's time to buy shares in the companies who produce them! :wink:
Mick F. Cornwall

mercalia
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby mercalia » 19 May 2019, 10:49am

or a balaclava? sorry officer its too cold or go to you local pantomine store and get some facial acoutrements :lol:

it isnt illegal to wear a mask in public is it?

if so then every one should? the cops cant arrest and "investigate" every one? :lol:
Last edited by mercalia on 19 May 2019, 10:51am, edited 1 time in total.

thirdcrank
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby thirdcrank » 19 May 2019, 10:51am

Bonefishblues wrote:I think that the issue I saw in the clip was that there was an individual who actively prevented his face been scanned. We're then into the realms of suspicion in terms of their motives, just as if someone hides from an officer, aren't we?


I think this is the wrong analogy. Let's suppose a posse of police were to be on a street, stopping everybody and requiring them to prove their ID to check if they were - in a general sense - of interest to the police. The fact that some might not consent to this isn't - in any legal sense - suspicious.

This is similar to the debate about ID cards.

Bonefishblues
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby Bonefishblues » 19 May 2019, 11:06am

thirdcrank wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:I think that the issue I saw in the clip was that there was an individual who actively prevented his face been scanned. We're then into the realms of suspicion in terms of their motives, just as if someone hides from an officer, aren't we?


I think this is the wrong analogy. Let's suppose a posse of police were to be on a street, stopping everybody and requiring them to prove their ID to check if they were - in a general sense - of interest to the police. The fact that some might not consent to this isn't - in any legal sense - suspicious.

This is similar to the debate about ID cards.

The guy was making an active show of his non-compliance and being filmed doing so - there was an element of cause celebre about it, I thought, but yes, I agree, we need some greater clarity about the extent of our privacy.

Perhaps it is now time for a Bill of Rights to enshrine them.

mercalia
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby mercalia » 19 May 2019, 11:11am

Bonefishblues wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:I think that the issue I saw in the clip was that there was an individual who actively prevented his face been scanned. We're then into the realms of suspicion in terms of their motives, just as if someone hides from an officer, aren't we?


I think this is the wrong analogy. Let's suppose a posse of police were to be on a street, stopping everybody and requiring them to prove their ID to check if they were - in a general sense - of interest to the police. The fact that some might not consent to this isn't - in any legal sense - suspicious.

This is similar to the debate about ID cards.

The guy was making an active show of his non-compliance and being filmed doing so - there was an element of cause celebre about it, I thought, but yes, I agree, we need some greater clarity about the extent of our privacy.

Perhaps it is now time for a Bill of Rights to enshrine them.


I dont think it is illegal to wear some thing over your face in public ( hence the gear that muslim women wear) so the police should have no presumption that you are a crook and need investigating? maybe you are just a odd person or some one famous ( they have been known to put on a disguise?) or just ugly, dont like your looks?