Facial Recognition by the Authorities

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brooksby
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby brooksby » 17 Aug 2019, 7:34am

If you read the privacy policies for a lot of private/pseudo-public spaces they now refer to capturing images and using AI/machine learning, so the Kings Cross site is hardly unique.

Bristol's Cabot Circus/Quakers Friars site is an example of this sort of site. The council sold off the land so it might look the same as nearby public land but it's privately owned. Lots of signs up saying no photos (ironic!), no cycling, no skateboarding, etc, and they had to admit that they use mobile phone tracking, but no signs up anywhere (yet!) warning that they're using facial recognition tech...

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Sweep
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Location: London

Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby Sweep » 17 Aug 2019, 7:40am

brooksby wrote:If you read the privacy policies for a lot of private/pseudo-public spaces they now refer to capturing images and using AI/machine learning, so the Kings Cross site is hardly unique.

Bristol's Cabot Circus/Quakers Friars site is an example of this sort of site. The council sold off the land so it might look the same as nearby public land but it's privately owned. Lots of signs up saying no photos (ironic!), no cycling, no skateboarding, etc, and they had to admit that they use mobile phone tracking, but no signs up anywhere (yet!) warning that they're using facial recognition tech...

I was once asked to leave such a place when wheeling a bike.
Was told the rubber might mark the paving. Peds weren't told to take their shoes off.
Now private land in the big development next to st pauls and in front of city hall in london. Pathetic.
Sweep

mercalia
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby mercalia » 17 Aug 2019, 10:58am

It seems it may be more widespread than we thought

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... GTUK_email

mercalia
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby mercalia » 2 Sep 2019, 9:01pm


mercalia
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby mercalia » 5 Oct 2019, 11:37am

but a scandal involving the police at KingsX

Images of seven people were passed on by local police for use in a facial recognition system at King’s Cross in London in an agreement that was struck in secret, the details of which have been made public for the first time.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/oct/04/facial-recognition-row-police-gave-kings-cross-owner-images-seven-people?utm_term=RWRpdG9yaWFsX0d1YXJkaWFuVG9kYXlVS19XZWVrZW5kLTE5MTAwNQ%3D%3D&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK&CMP=GTUK_email

Bonefishblues
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby Bonefishblues » 5 Oct 2019, 12:11pm

If only we weren't paralysed with the B word, our legislature might usefully be doing its job.

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Sweep
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby Sweep » 5 Oct 2019, 2:24pm

Bonefishblues wrote:If only we weren't paralysed with the B word, our legislature might usefully be doing its job.

Please keep gratuitous brexit comments out of this thread, and others that aren't specifically on brexit.
Governments have long looked the other way on civil liberties issues, brexit or no brexit. Suggest you study some history.
Sweep

Bonefishblues
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby Bonefishblues » 5 Oct 2019, 3:27pm

Sweep wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:If only we weren't paralysed with the B word, our legislature might usefully be doing its job.

Please keep gratuitous brexit comments out of this thread, and others that aren't specifically on brexit.
Governments have long looked the other way on civil liberties issues, brexit or no brexit. Suggest you study some history.

Not sure if serious?

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Sweep
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby Sweep » 5 Oct 2019, 3:41pm

Am entirely serious.
Whatever would make you think I'm not?
I don't play games, on or offline.
Please address subject thread.
If you are minded to.
Sweep

Bonefishblues
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby Bonefishblues » 5 Oct 2019, 4:30pm

Oh, I assumed that you couldn't be, given the nature of your post. I hope your day improves.

mercalia
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby mercalia » 6 Oct 2019, 9:46am

it seems the Guardian has well and truly the bit between its teeth

It can pick out shoplifters, international criminals and lost children in seconds. But as the cameras proliferate, who’s watching the watchers?
[url]
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... GTUK_email[/url]

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Cugel
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Postby Cugel » 6 Oct 2019, 12:11pm

As mentioned in various threads elsewhere, its surprising how similar things (having similar great benefits and drawbacks) are seen by the great Blighty public from very different perspectives. To give an example:

The private motor car is regarded by many a a great and essential boon to all mankind, enabling us to go where we will when we want. Its lack is even regarded as transport "poverty"! Most car-fans are content to ignore the vast harms the things do, such as over 1 million deaths worldwide per year from "accidents" and the many millions maimed or choked by the polluting gases. And all the rest.

Facial recognition and other panopticon technologies are regarded as an awfully terrible infringement of anonymity. They are regarded as such by car-fans, particularly, who believe being caught breaking the law when speeding, or otherwise behaving dangerously, is misuse of the panopticons known as speed cameras or CCTV. Add face recognition and the howls of protest increase markedly.

Of course, panopticons too have their downsides. Who watches the watchers may be a very pertinent question when the watchers work for a totalitarian State rather than for a nice democracy where only those breaking a rule of law are had-up. Any society may go totalitarian, so it's of no use arguing that "I don't mind the panopticon 'cos I never do anything wrong". Next year it may become "wrong" to have a dark skin or be female without showing the owning-label of some male.

Yet all these technologies have this issue: what is the balance of good and bad things that may be achieved with their use? Some will say that we must choose carefully what we allow and disallow.

But this ignores the reality of technologies as witnessed by oodles and reams of history. Technologies have an evolutionary life of their own, which sees them succeed or otherwise despite what humans wish for. Once they're out of Pandora's box, they fly free and no human waving a troubles-net will catch the rascals.

There will be push-back against face recognition et al .... for a a bit. Then it will become another new norm. Who knows how the associated balance of benefits and harms will go? But no technology has a very good record on that score. Even the apparently good ones (medicine, for example) have harmful effects (population explosion).

Cugel