Facial Recognition by the Authorities

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brooksby
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Post by brooksby »

If you read the privacy policies for a lot of private/pseudo-public spaces they now refer to capturing images and using AI/machine learning, so the Kings Cross site is hardly unique.

Bristol's Cabot Circus/Quakers Friars site is an example of this sort of site. The council sold off the land so it might look the same as nearby public land but it's privately owned. Lots of signs up saying no photos (ironic!), no cycling, no skateboarding, etc, and they had to admit that they use mobile phone tracking, but no signs up anywhere (yet!) warning that they're using facial recognition tech...
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Sweep
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Post by Sweep »

brooksby wrote:If you read the privacy policies for a lot of private/pseudo-public spaces they now refer to capturing images and using AI/machine learning, so the Kings Cross site is hardly unique.

Bristol's Cabot Circus/Quakers Friars site is an example of this sort of site. The council sold off the land so it might look the same as nearby public land but it's privately owned. Lots of signs up saying no photos (ironic!), no cycling, no skateboarding, etc, and they had to admit that they use mobile phone tracking, but no signs up anywhere (yet!) warning that they're using facial recognition tech...

I was once asked to leave such a place when wheeling a bike.
Was told the rubber might mark the paving. Peds weren't told to take their shoes off.
Now private land in the big development next to st pauls and in front of city hall in london. Pathetic.
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mercalia
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Post by mercalia »

It seems it may be more widespread than we thought

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... GTUK_email
mercalia
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Post by mercalia »

mercalia
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Post by mercalia »

but a scandal involving the police at KingsX

Images of seven people were passed on by local police for use in a facial recognition system at King’s Cross in London in an agreement that was struck in secret, the details of which have been made public for the first time.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/oct/04/facial-recognition-row-police-gave-kings-cross-owner-images-seven-people?utm_term=RWRpdG9yaWFsX0d1YXJkaWFuVG9kYXlVS19XZWVrZW5kLTE5MTAwNQ%3D%3D&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK&CMP=GTUK_email
Bonefishblues
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Post by Bonefishblues »

If only we weren't paralysed with the B word, our legislature might usefully be doing its job.
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Sweep
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Post by Sweep »

Bonefishblues wrote:If only we weren't paralysed with the B word, our legislature might usefully be doing its job.

Please keep gratuitous brexit comments out of this thread, and others that aren't specifically on brexit.
Governments have long looked the other way on civil liberties issues, brexit or no brexit. Suggest you study some history.
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Bonefishblues
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Post by Bonefishblues »

Sweep wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:If only we weren't paralysed with the B word, our legislature might usefully be doing its job.

Please keep gratuitous brexit comments out of this thread, and others that aren't specifically on brexit.
Governments have long looked the other way on civil liberties issues, brexit or no brexit. Suggest you study some history.

Not sure if serious?
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Sweep
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Post by Sweep »

Am entirely serious.
Whatever would make you think I'm not?
I don't play games, on or offline.
Please address subject thread.
If you are minded to.
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Bonefishblues
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Post by Bonefishblues »

Oh, I assumed that you couldn't be, given the nature of your post. I hope your day improves.
mercalia
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Post by mercalia »

it seems the Guardian has well and truly the bit between its teeth

It can pick out shoplifters, international criminals and lost children in seconds. But as the cameras proliferate, who’s watching the watchers?
[url]
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... GTUK_email[/url]
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Cugel
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Post by Cugel »

As mentioned in various threads elsewhere, its surprising how similar things (having similar great benefits and drawbacks) are seen by the great Blighty public from very different perspectives. To give an example:

The private motor car is regarded by many a a great and essential boon to all mankind, enabling us to go where we will when we want. Its lack is even regarded as transport "poverty"! Most car-fans are content to ignore the vast harms the things do, such as over 1 million deaths worldwide per year from "accidents" and the many millions maimed or choked by the polluting gases. And all the rest.

Facial recognition and other panopticon technologies are regarded as an awfully terrible infringement of anonymity. They are regarded as such by car-fans, particularly, who believe being caught breaking the law when speeding, or otherwise behaving dangerously, is misuse of the panopticons known as speed cameras or CCTV. Add face recognition and the howls of protest increase markedly.

Of course, panopticons too have their downsides. Who watches the watchers may be a very pertinent question when the watchers work for a totalitarian State rather than for a nice democracy where only those breaking a rule of law are had-up. Any society may go totalitarian, so it's of no use arguing that "I don't mind the panopticon 'cos I never do anything wrong". Next year it may become "wrong" to have a dark skin or be female without showing the owning-label of some male.

Yet all these technologies have this issue: what is the balance of good and bad things that may be achieved with their use? Some will say that we must choose carefully what we allow and disallow.

But this ignores the reality of technologies as witnessed by oodles and reams of history. Technologies have an evolutionary life of their own, which sees them succeed or otherwise despite what humans wish for. Once they're out of Pandora's box, they fly free and no human waving a troubles-net will catch the rascals.

There will be push-back against face recognition et al .... for a a bit. Then it will become another new norm. Who knows how the associated balance of benefits and harms will go? But no technology has a very good record on that score. Even the apparently good ones (medicine, for example) have harmful effects (population explosion).

Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
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Sweep
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Post by Sweep »

That clever brit WW1 tech makes a comeback:


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-519138 ... ol-cameras
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AlaninWales
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Post by AlaninWales »

Sweep wrote:That clever brit WW1 tech makes a comeback:


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-519138 ... ol-cameras

Might work - or the AI might learn to ignore it. I was once pulled over coming back through the airport (Heathrow ISTR). Apparently the hi-vis cycling hat with reflective stripes was confusing the cameras and blurring out my face!
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661-Pete
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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Post by 661-Pete »

Are they going to switch the FR cameras over to sounding out us oldies going out for a walk during lockdown? :shock:

I don't fancy going around in a COVID-style face mask all the time, but maybe this is the answer:
Image
Can't manage the hat, unfortunately...
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
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